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Should use of deadly force be different for human or animal attackers?

10K views 97 replies 63 participants last post by  DubH00 
#1 ·
First I realize that humans are animals. I use animals to cover all non human animals for this question.

In my State the use of deadly force in self defense required that you be in fear of death or great bodily harm. My questions is this. Why do so many think that the standard should be higher when it applies to dumb animals? On this forum and many others you see comments about how a person would not used deadly force against an animal unless they were actually being bitten or mauled. Would this person wait to be stabbed or shot by an attacking human before using deadly force to protect themselves?

Why the discrepancy? Why should what is attempting to do do your great bodily harm change how you defend yourself?
Am I wrong to see this as a purely emotional response? That we do not want to think that fluffy actually intendeds to rip your throat out? Many of us are quick to say deadly force is permissible when we are in fear for our lives. That it is reasonable to shoot a person coming at you with a knife. Before they actually stab you. Yet when fluffy comes at you they say you should never shoot at just a threat. That you should only shoot if you are bitten.

Michael
 
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#4 ·
i am not a dog guy, but i have snakes and cats so i am an animal person, but i think if a dog has a hold of your arm, whether or not you think it is lethal you should be able to shoot it. they euthnise them in shelters all over the country and no one says boo.
Yes, but why is it that we find it acceptable to shoot a human before he actually draws blood but will wait for blood to be drawn when fluffy is the perpetrator?

Michael
 
#3 ·
I would shoot an animal (say a coyote, that are all OVER Atlanta, believe it or not) that I perceived as a threat in a heartbeat. No waiting to for the biting to start here.
 
#7 ·
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Depends on the animal. A large dog can bring you down and rip your throat out in seconds, whereas a small nipper will get your ankles pretty good. A wild animal is another thing altogether.

I'm going to use any foreknowledge of an animal in my defensive technique to help decide the best course of action. As with the human animal, the firearm is not the first option for me.
 
#9 ·
We are humans.
We are the top of the food chain.
We do not have to take any crap,bites,scratches,whatever it may be...from an animal.

I had to blast a pit bull once. He died at my feet,even splattered blood on my boots.
I dang sure didnt wait until he bit me.

For the liberal loons that use lies and liberal logic to attempt to dictate how I live...Sorry... Aint happenin.
 
#35 ·
We are humans.
We are the top of the food chain.
We do not have to take any crap,bites,scratches,whatever it may be...from an animal.

I had to blast a pit bull once. He died at my feet,ever splattered blood on my boots.
I dang sure didnt wait until he bit me.

For the liberal loons that use lies and liberal logic to attempt to dictate how I live...Sorry... Aint happenin.
Oh yeah, ain't been in the water with a Great White lately, have you? Bet it would have a different opinion.
 
#10 ·
I wouldnt hesitate to use force against an animal, even if it hasnt made its move yet. I only wonder what kind of legal issues may surround it if say in an urban setting. I dont mean from the owners, they shouls keep the animal leashed as many laws suggest (regarding dogs). We didnt cover animal attacks in my carry class.

I agree that there shouldnt be a difference between human and animal but a person pulling a weapon and saying hes ganna fight you is different than an animal just growling. A loose dog growled at me the other day. Hand on my gun but if I shot it, in a residential area, I probably would have been arrested.

The dog was across the street. Kept growling but nothinf more. If it started moving even slowly towards me, no question I would shoot. But keeping its diatance, unleashed, Im not sure its worth the risk.
 
#12 ·
I believe human's have a special place in this creation due to being made in the image of God. Therefore, I don't have a problem with killing an animal that appears to be an immanent threat to me and/or my family. It doesn't have to bite to be a threat. If it's growling and moving closer and closer as I am moving away from it, then I will stop that threat.
 
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#14 ·
Dont do what i just did!

Dont underestimate the ankle biters.

Its ironic this thread poped up today.

I cant imagine using deadly force on a small dog unless I had reason to believe it was rabid or was incredibly relentless. So Im in a private residence (I work EMS) and there is a big dog roaming the yard barking. Asked the homeowner to secure it, no problem there.

I get inside and there is a small dog, a shitzu I think. Its leaving me alone, dragging its bottom on the carpet. Then it gets up and atill minding its business as if nothing were happening. Suddenly the little thing lunges at me and as funny as I think little dogs are when they are aggressive, I didnt hesitate to give a good swift kick. Homeowner laughed, better not think calling my super will get anywhere.
 
#15 ·
In my mind deadly force should be different for human and animal attackers. I like dogs. Humans...not so much. I'll give a dog the benefit of the doubt and use pepper spray on Fluffy. He's a dumb animial with limited capacity for understanding and is most likely simply the product of human abuse. The big dawg coming at me with bad intent... should be held to a different standard. Feel free to shy away if my honesty disturbs you.
 
#16 ·
That is a distinction many people make. It is one I do not understand. But them I am not willing to be bitten by a strange animal. I do not care if the person or animal knows what they are doing. What is in their mind does not concern me. I am only concerned about my well being. To me a dumb animal is no different than a mentally deficient person or a person on drugs or alcohol. I will not accept physical harm from any of them.

Michael
 
#17 ·
Why the discrepancy? Why should what is attempting to do do your great bodily harm change how you defend yourself?
For myself, it has little to do with the threat being human or not; it has to do with the severity of the threat. If the jeopardy is real and present (and not merely "feared"), it's irrelevant whether the threat walks on two legs or four, whether it's large or small, whether it's rabid or merely acting like it.
 
#18 ·
Just think...
Stop the threat...
Stop the threat...
Stop the threat...
Stop the threat...
Stop the threat...
Stop the threat...
Stop the threat...
Stop the threat...
Stop the threat...
Stop the threat...
Now you're catching on...:yup:
 
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#19 ·
If you have decide to carry a firearm you better have commited to making proper threat assesments before you go off pulling the trigger. I think most of can recognize what a serious threat is and it as this point we we begin to prepare to protect ourselves. It is a rare dog that will attack for no reason, it will normally only do so to protect someone or property, or if provoked. I am in my 60s, and have never been close to being attacted by a loose dog, now I have pulled a gun on four humans though, used to be in a very high security situatiuon, so things happened. Now taking animals for food, killing dangereous virmin is another matter, and I have done both with a clear concience. Could I kill a dog, or cat yes, but I don't expect to ever need to.
 
#20 ·
Your dogs want to be your friends. I like dogs, but I've come across more than one that were off leash, no owner around, and aggressive. If I have a medium/large dog, not attached to its owner, and with no means to avoid it and I have any inkling it's coming for me it's getting popped with whatever I have handy - spray or bullet.
 
#21 ·
If any animal is agressivly coming at me or one of my family, two legged or four legged, i will not hesitate to shoot and stop what i consider a threat. now, if it is a little ankle biter, i might opt to punt it like a football....but appropriate action to meet the threat will be used....ankle biters can hurt you, carry disease, ect.... I love animals, do not get me wrong, an avid hunter, but an animal is what it is, whether it be homosapian, dog, deer, .....you get the pic. If you come to harm me or my tribe, do not expect me to show any mercy. If your meat in the freezor or on the table, then, thats what you are.....
 
#22 ·
I think its all about threat assesment. You have to feel like your life is in danger, and not only that convince a judge or jury of that as well. A 10 lb. Shitzu, not so much of a threat, a 100 lb mastif running at you with teeth showing.. different story. This applies to too legged animals too.
 
#23 ·
The main moral problems with dogs is that you might not be able to tell how serious they are when they're growling. If a dog is coming at you, it's vastly, vastly different behaviour compared to if they're warning you.

If the dog weighs over 35lbs and comes at me......its gettin plugged.

If its under 35 pounds. its getting punted like a football.

If its a human.......its getting plugged multiple times.
Jesus, I wouldn't be scared of people who're around the 35 lb mark! Not scared enough to shoot them!
 
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#24 ·
Let one of those furry critters rip a chunk of meat off your leg and you may think differently.
I was supposed to show up at a business to fix a piece of equip , early one morning. They didn't tell they had a pitbull that run loose.
As I walked across the parking lot; I could see guys working in a shop welding stuff. I got out into the open and here comes this dog in atttack mode.
He got within 10 feet of me and I had my 45 lined up on him. As soon as he saw that barrel, he knew what to do, and that was run the other way. So no shots fired, but my finger was on that trigger, safety was off.
 
#25 ·
Maybe I’m wrong but when it comes to threat assessment I regard the potential element of surprise a threat multiplier. Dogs are honest. They let you know exactly how they feel about you as soon as they see you. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a dog wagging his tail and playing submissive just to breech your defensives and get close enough to get a good bite in. His size is apparent. His weapons are plain to see. A dog poses a threat I am confident I can handle.

I’ve never developed the skill to tell what’s in a person’s heart just by looking at him. I can observe his behavior, gauge how he reacts to any adjustments I may make but I’m quickly running out of time and still uncertain of his intent. Only the BG truly knows for sure when the battle started. I don’t appreciate being put in the hole from the start. Play fair like a dog and maybe I’ll treat you like one with a quick squirt of pepper spray. Scheme like a human...
 
#26 ·
I have been attacked/ mauled a couple times by bigger dogs. Trust me: painful, scary and potentially deadly. Just think, an aggressor faster than you, bound by instincts and training vs law, liability, and consequences... Whenever i go jogging or biking, i carry, and i always consider my primary threat to be domestic dogs then stray or feral dogs. I do carry chemical spray to give myself an intermediate option vs small to medium size dogs... but i usually run on the street and if the dog crosses the sidewalk into the easement, showing aggressive signs , he's getting somethin flying his direction....
 
#27 ·
...often when a dog attacks (especially if there are two or three) they ARE playing... They've been trained to do their job (attack home invaders) by making it a game... problem is, you are now just a plaything in the game they've been taught to play ... Three pit bulls attacked a woman in the hallway of her apartment building; when they finished only a small patch on the top of her head was not bitten ... but the entire time, the dogs were playfully wagging their tails. Not protecting property or owners ; to them it was simply a game they had been taught to enjoy...

Bottom line, even "playful dogs can be deadly dangerous. No problem here with dispatching Fido; worry about consequences later...
 
#28 ·
First I realize that humans are animals. I use animals to cover all non human animals for this question.

In my State the use of deadly force in self defense required that you be in fear of death or great bodily harm. My questions is this. Why do so many think that the standard should be higher when it applies to dumb animals?

Michael
Methinks your comment is not supported by anyone on this forum--not sure where you came up with this assumption. In SC and many other states animals are (legally) the equivalent of a piece of equipment---you cannot sue for "pain/suffering" or anything relating to those type of legal terms when discussing the treatment of an animal.
 
#29 ·
My post was only to question those who say that is attacked by beast they would give the animal more leeway than they would if attacked by a human. Yes on this form there are those who say that if a dog attacked they would hold off against using deadly force until they had been bitten. Yet a person with a knife comes at them they would use deadly force before being stabbed.
I only question the reasons for this different reaction to similar threats.

Michael
 
#30 ·
Animals are just doing want animals do without thought. Humans have to make a conscious decision to decide if they will hurt you. That's what seperates man from animal, the ability to reason.
 
#31 ·
Dog lovers let their pooches run without a leash - they think it's cute. If I am walking with a little kid and rover gets aggresive, then it's 'Bed-Time' for Rover.

An owner that lets an aggressive dog run around is asking to get his dog shot. Everyone gets these crazy dogs, pythons, big lizards, and they get loose. I live in Fl and we got 20 ft snakes thanks to pet owners that turned it loose.
 
#33 ·
This is one of my labs. He's a great companion and very loyal. He does leave a bit to be desired as far as a hunting dog but we're working on that. That's another story. :) This is his "protective mode" and what an intruder would have to confront first as he has house night watch inside. As a responsible dog owner I have already had the talk with my neighbor that has been over to my house and I told him that IF for some reason he got loose and threatened his family at his house, he has my full recommendation and blessing to drop him on the spot. Although I love all of my dogs, I would not be able to deal very well with the fact that my dog hurt someone. I don't take his tether lightly either; since this picture was taken, he's been bound by a chain that could tow an aircraft carrier if he's tied up and not in the house with us.

This is what happens when my chickens get too close to his food dish as his warning. He also does this at the door with unfamiliar guests. In response to the OP, if this was happening in front of me with a dog that I didn't know, I would not hesitate to shoot even if it appears that he is holding and not actually biting.

 
#34 ·
Having taking reports of people that were seriously injured by even small dogs, I think that most people underestimate the damage that sharp teeth can do.

In a serious dog bite, even a small one, it can take months or even years to recuperate, if one has not experienced nerve damage of some sort. I can take you to several victims of dog bites where the the person lost partial use of a hand or an arm due to nerve damage.

Its not something to be taken lightly.
 
#38 ·
Animals don't get an extra pass for their lack of reasoning ability. Biting or otherwise destructive animals are dealt with. The shame of it all is the irresponsibility of animal owners who don't exercise good reasoning.
 
#40 ·
Agreed.
Again, contrary to what some would like to make my OP to be it has nothing to do with whether or not you should shoot fluffy. Same for humans. It was only an inquiry into the thinking process behind it. Like it or not if you can believe what they say many would use deadly force against a human quicker than they would a dumb animal.

Michael
 
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