If the Aggressor Surrenders? - Page 2

If the Aggressor Surrenders?

This is a discussion on If the Aggressor Surrenders? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Never happens. The aggressor runs away, knowing full well that a law-abiding citizen is not allowed to shoot him (the running aggressor) as the aggressor ...

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Thread: If the Aggressor Surrenders?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array marcclarke's Avatar
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    Never happens. The aggressor runs away, knowing full well that a law-abiding citizen is not allowed to shoot him (the running aggressor) as the aggressor flees. I don't think I have ever seen a single instance of a report of an aggressor surrendering and remaining on the scene.
    Last edited by marcclarke; July 30th, 2012 at 02:06 AM. Reason: Fix spelling.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    Let me play "Mr. Realistic" here for a second....I personally carry a weapon for the defense of myself and my loved ones. With that being said, if I am confronted with a BG (Aggressor) who HAS a weapon, and his possession of that weapon has caused me to be in fear of my life and has caused me to make the determination that I needed to draw my weapon to protect myself and my loved one....then MY decision has already been made when I draw my weapon. Things will be happening in a "split second", not over 5 or 10 seconds. I will be moving off the X as I draw, and as I am presenting my weapon, I will begin to "stitch" the BG (Aggressor)...There will be NO decision to make as to him dropping his weapon and what will I do...I will shoot to stop the threat...

    Are you really going to draw your weapon...pause...say to yourself, "lets see if the BG (Aggressor) is going to drop his weapon", before you make your decision to act????? Sir, if that is your mindset, then you might as well not even draw your weapon...Just say to him, "Uhhh Mr. Aggressor, you might want to go ahead and drop your weapon, because I have one and I'm gonna draw mine, so if it scares you, just go ahead and drop yours now, before I expend the energy to draw mine"....

    You've been watching too many movies...You might want to concentrate in how fast things happen in real life and train accordingly...JMO
    First Sgt, I read your post after I posted mine and just don't see the scenario playing out like in the OP either. I think that if by some miracle you do find yourself in a position where you're holding a criminal at gunpoint then ccw9mm has some good info there. But I sure wouldn't count on it being plan A.
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  3. #18
    MJK
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    Many years ago I surprised someone attempting to bteak into my apartment. When he saw my weapon drawn and pointed at him he turned tail and skedaddled! My response was to let him go. LE arrived on the scene several minutes later and I had my weapon holstered (a Ruger Super Blackhawk - but also had a Smith M59 backup in my back waistband). Gave the officers a description and they went on a search, only to find him hiding in the neighborhood.
    [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. ---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    If you had to draw your firearm it should mean you had to shoot your gun--period/end of story. The scenario is so dynamic that we can talk about the BG literally changing his mind as he realizes this was not a good idea before you even present your firearm---somewhere in the middle of this is, IMO, a "no shoot" but I find such an idea somewhat difficult to comprehend as happening.
    If you had defined your thread as being "at night" and not the daytime, you have an option in SC. Law on the books that if you effect a "citizens' arrest" (only at night) and the BG decides to try and evade your arrest you can stop him from evading "by any means possible including death". Case law supports the very clear and unmistakeable wording of the law, which was put on the books probably at civil war or earlier time---he runs you can shoot him in the back if that is what it will take to stop his evasion from your arrest.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array marcclarke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    If you had to draw your firearm it should mean you had to shoot your gun--period/end of story.
    Wow, I don't think this is correct at all. As I understand Dr. John Lott's numbers, the majority of self-defense occurrences involving a gun do not involve the good guy's gun being fired. In the vast majority of cases (as I understand Lott's book "More Guns, Less Crime, 3rd Edition") most of the time the defender producing a gun causes the attacker to lose interest and flee.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    Let me play "Mr. Realistic" here for a second....I personally carry a weapon for the defense of myself and my loved ones. With that being said, if I am confronted with a BG (Aggressor) who HAS a weapon, and his possession of that weapon has caused me to be in fear of my life and has caused me to make the determination that I needed to draw my weapon to protect myself and my loved one....then MY decision has already been made when I draw my weapon. Things will be happening in a "split second", not over 5 or 10 seconds. I will be moving off the X as I draw, and as I am presenting my weapon, I will begin to "stitch" the BG (Aggressor)...There will be NO decision to make as to him dropping his weapon and what will I do...I will shoot to stop the threat...

    Are you really going to draw your weapon...pause...say to yourself, "lets see if the BG (Aggressor) is going to drop his weapon", before you make your decision to act????? Sir, if that is your mindset, then you might as well not even draw your weapon...Just say to him, "Uhhh Mr. Aggressor, you might want to go ahead and drop your weapon, because I have one and I'm gonna draw mine, so if it scares you, just go ahead and drop yours now, before I expend the energy to draw mine"....

    You've been watching too many movies...You might want to concentrate in how fast things happen in real life and train accordingly...JMO
    I don't think it's inconceivable that an aggressor with a knife, broken bottle, or some other improvised weapon could recognize your draw and immediately drop his weapon, throw up his hands and start back peddling. Do you still proceed on auto-pilot and "stitch" him?
    Against a gun sure, it's different. Against any other weapon (if there is distance), I'm going to give the aggressor a fraction of a second longer to decide if this is what he really wants to do.
    atctimmy and tcox4freedom like this.
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  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Shoot the hostage.
    and make sure the bus doesn't go below 50 mph.

    [on topic]

    I agree that it depends on the situation. I think that until the police arrive, you have the BG prone out, and keep your firearm at low ready, while continually checking your 6 for accomplices. Keeping your gun on the BG in a high stress situation does 3 negative things, IMO.

    1. it can make you look like a BG to bystanders (which may make it more difficult for you when the police arrive.

    2. it makes you more focused on the BG, and less likely to see threats approaching from the rear or sides.

    3. it increases the chances of a ND into the BG. I don't care how much you train, studies show that even highly trained people put their finger on the trigger when they shouldn't, in high stress situations
    whoppo likes this.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  8. #23
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    Just a word on human perception, A person who speaks with authority (Clear, concise, and commanding) will be perceived by the general public as a person of authority. A person unkempt, talking trash, and acting tough will be perceived for what he is, a thug.

    Also if you find yourself in the nightmare you envision just remember that god gave you 2 ears for a reason, when the Calvary arrives listen to what they say and obey their commands promptly, they say drop the gun.... drop it, don't think about it getting scratched. that scratch will be a constant reminder of the day you survived, wear it proud.
    "Those without swords can still die upon them."

  9. #24
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    I think if a thug sees your firearm, and doesn't attempt to shoot you, he will turn and do the OJ Simpson.........Bye
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  10. #25
    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb1900 View Post
    This is why you need a CCW badge! Think about how useful it is: "No, sir, I'm just an armed citizen! Look, I even have a badge!" "I am not the mass shooter! I have a badge for the gun, whereas mass shooters can't get badges!"

    Also, you probably need an internet badge, which you'll show as you say the words, "Don't worry. We're from the internet!"

    Attachment 61235
    Make sure it's a gold badge.

  11. #26
    Member Array Ionracas's Avatar
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    Thank you all for the input thus far. I dont doubt the scenario I prapose is the least likley but isnt that even more a reason to give it thought?


    ncsteveh - I have had many people inlucding my partner at work say that I should have been a cop (based on my appearances and the way I talk). I agree 100% with that first half of your statement. Well with both halves but how a person carries and conducts theirself is important.
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  12. #27
    MJK
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    If I draw my weapon it is in response to a lethal threat. If, during the draw and presentation, the threat de-escalates to non-life threatening then I have neither the moral nor legal right to employ deadly force. I'm not an officer of the law so I will not assume responsibility for detaining a suspect unless it can be safely accomplished. In other words, the BG would have to cooperate in the detention. If he chooses to run, so be it.
    [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. ---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

  13. #28
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    See the above, that's the way it is done.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  14. #29
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    so let’s say you draw your weapon and he gives up (yes it has happened) IMP the thing I would do is make them get on the ground face down interlock their fingers behind their head and cross their legs bent at the knees so they are facing upwards then if possible stand near their feet but not to close with gun in the ready position

    I am talking from Texas law so you have the BG on the ground and he is in a position and he is going to start to think about running so you counter react and reassure him if he gets up or makes a move you will see it as an aggressive move and shoot him. others are correct you can't shoot a fleeing felon but who is to say he is done fighting when he jumps up... you didn't search him and he could have another weapon.

    One thing I have learned is that after 30 seconds of holding a gun on someone the GG will start to drift and lose concentration as other things are going on around them. After all you are looking for accomplices and police to show up this is why I say stand near his feet. This is the place he is least likely to be able to jump up and attack you before you can shoot


    Add on: what if the guy runs off so is it? What if he runs off and gets another weapon and comes back. Are You willing to take that chance?
    I friend of mine had a run in with some punks one night and made them give him there ID's so if something ever happened to his house he would know where to find them. Make the BG drop his wallet on the ground so if he does run at least they can find him

  15. #30
    Member Array Ionracas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    Add on: what if the guy runs off so is it? What if he runs off and gets another weapon and comes back. Are You willing to take that chance?
    I friend of mine had a run in with some punks one night and made them give him there ID's so if something ever happened to his house he would know where to find them. Make the BG drop his wallet on the ground so if he does run at least they can find him
    Interesting concept but I think that would require some serious explaining depending on witnesses. It could very well be turned and made to look like an armed robbery turned hostage taking.
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