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Hearing loss

5K views 43 replies 35 participants last post by  Ala Dan 
#1 ·
Hey everyone,
I have been thinking, I bought a .45 a few months ago and have been keeping that next to my bed at night. Now, obvioulsly I would fire it if I had to at an intruder. What I was thinking about though was whether or not that would blow out my ear drums?
Awhile ago I fired my walther p22 at the range without hearing protecting to see how loud it was and it made my ears ring. I can't imagine how loud a .45 would be in an enclosed area.
What do you think?
 
#2 ·
Heheheh! Unless you're shooting really hot .45s, its still subsonic, with decent powder-burn, so it won't be as bad as +P 9mm/.38Spl/.357, but it will ring your bell.

DON'T SHOOT WITHOUT HEARING PROTECTION! EVER! It would be bad enough to be saying, "Wha'?", to everyone after defending yourself- worse to be saying that when the BG says he's gonna cap yo' a**. Hearing is another part of your defensive physique to be maintained.:hand10:
 
#3 ·
I am amazed my hearing is still very fair, tho some loss on left. Considering back in early 60's shooting MkIV Enfields at Bisley we had no ear protection - at best a twist of cleaning patch in each ear :rolleyes:

So - protection is way to go every time - except if you have to fire inside a house, car, whatever - you will probably suffer some effects. It is most unlikely any of us would have any hearing protection - in fact it could be counter productive when it comes to needing to hear sounds in the house.

I rate the risk as necessary if it came to having to shoot - and the odds of that are slim hopefully. I doubt eardrum rupture would occur with a handgun of average performance but not impossible. Large cals or rifle then we may well be talking significant damage.

I shall hope to not put this to the test :wink:
 
#4 ·
You won't blow out your ear drums unless the weapon were fired right next to your ear!

Over time shooting will cause some damage, but if you're in a self defense shooting don't worry about hearing loss, worry about loss of life!

I know that when I hunt or when dispatching varmints, I don't use hearing protection. I want to be able to hear what is happening around me. I also recall, in most cases, I don't remember the sound of the shots, no ringing or pain. Don't know why that is......but for me that's what happens.

On the range, it's a different story, if I shoot without protection it hurts!

P.S. there is also a difference when the round you fire goes supersonic. Sub sonic like .45acp & 9mm don't have that 'crack' to it, since they don't go over the speed of sound. Other rounds like .357 & rifle calibers will! They will be more painful. Supersonic rounds will hurt MORE!
 
#5 ·
I've still got some tinnitus from shooting shotguns a long time ago without hearing protection.

My nightmare is shooting my S&W 640 from inside the small metal box of my vehicle. :blink:
 
#42 · (Edited)
I've still got some tinnitus from shooting shotguns a long time ago without hearing protection.
Mine is from someone shooting a 357 without my hearing protection in my first time on the range. I could not hear for that entire day or half of the next.

Stupid me was gagging because ear plugs dont work for me so I took them out while at the range which has a full rock face behind the firing lines. BAD MOVE

I am glad to see that I am not the only one who had this problem. Thought it was just me.

I also thank you all for reminding me about this, I am leaving for a youth convention early tomorrow so I am still need to pick up a set of ear plugs as normal.
 
#6 ·
what??....I can't hear you. I shot a GLOCK 27(.40 cal) without hearing protection exactly once. And never again. My head hurt for two days. I'm sure some damage was done, but I can still hear fine...I think. Like others say, It will be the least of worries if you need your gun.
 
#7 ·
Get a set of the electronic ear muff's and put them next to your house gun and leave them there until you need them, these are your house gun set only. If an intruder breaks in, grab both and turn the volume all the way up. This way you can hear even better what is going on in the house where he might be moving and if you must shoot your ear's are protected with anything over .85 decibles instantly. I also don't believe that you would blow out your ear drums but always take caution.


Ti.
 
#8 ·
Ti has a dandy idea!
Thank you for that!
Protect your hearing, my friend. My ears ring thanks to shooting very early in childhood without protection; did not get my first set of muffs until I was sixteen, by then the damage was done.
Don't imitate my bad example!
 
#9 ·
I have tinnitus after 23 years in ARMY aviation. During the 60's and in Nam they didn't care if you had ear plugs or not. Listen if you shoot at the range and when your done your ears ring the damage is done. Wear hearing protection if you got it. the ringing in my ears is insane and I fear it will drive me insane. Of course if someone is in your house and threatening you, just shoot. Your ears will ring but you'll be alive.

Tim
 
#10 ·
I tried shooting one of my movement drills without ear protection once just to see if it would effect my ability to put rounds on target. It did, a small bit. It was extremely loud and my head hurt for about 30 minutes afterwards. There is a reason why people who are involved in shootings always talk about how they were surprised by how loud it was. I don't want to test the theory again.

When I used to work at a training center, we did a lot of drills that ended up in gunfights. We did use ear protection as a standard - but the people we were training did not. It was rough.
 
#11 ·
As Stated Above...

a loss of hearing is better than a loss of life. I don't think I would try to fire my .45 even once to see if 'it hurts'...why?
My set of electronic muffs, for both my wife and I, only blot out the sound of the shot...conversation is still normal, and that is an important safety factor when at the range!

Stay safe...

ret:urla9ub:
 
#12 ·
I was thinking about this the other day.
check this out,
Blast: Environmental Noise decibel ratings

The 357 SIG has sometimes been accused of having too much blast. Well, it depends. 357 SIG blast and flash is certainly less severe than a typical 357 Magnum revolver. Blast and flash can be controlled with various powders, flash inhibitors, and other components. A heavier bullet and/or a slower velocity can lower the noise level.

In actuality, 357 SIG ammo can easily be produced with velocities in the subsonic, transonic, or supersonic ranges (920 fps to over 1400 fps with a 4” barrel). You can have the 357 SIG sound just about any way you want it to. I fired a Ruger .22 pistol, and then I immediately fired a 357SIG pistol with a light powered 357 SIG round, followed immediately by a full powered 357 SIG round. As expected, the .22 was the quietest. The light 357 SIG round was equivalent in sound to a typical "standard" 9mm Luger round. The full power 357 SIG round was the loudest of all, with that typical supersonic cracking sound. The 357 SIG can simply speak with authority if you want it to, and with typical 125 grain factory ammo, it does.

I read an account by an officer who has been in situations of guns being fired in public. He said that in general, people are curious to see what the popping noise is and can sometimes get in the way of official business. Yet when a 357 SIG pistol was fired, everybody hit the ground in fear. A loud voice sometimes serves a purpose.

When I shoot, or when I listen to others shoot "hot" supersonic rounds in, +P 9mm, .40 S&W, or +.45 ACP, the blast sounds fairly similar with that typical loud supersonic cracking sound like a 357 SIG. As far as I'm concerned, all duty calibers are too noisy.

With recent advances in electronic ear protection, it's really a moot point. You can even have electronic ear inserts made. Unless you have just a split second to respond to a threat, use electronic ears with your gun, whether you're a Law Abiding Citizen, or a Law Enforcement Officer. Make it part of your training with easy access to your ear protection. Besides, electronic ears can help you hear normal sounds even better, while muffling out the loud noise.

Here's a short list of Environmental Noise decibel ratings:

dB
Environmental Noise

10
Normal breathing

50
Interior home noise

70
Crowded restaurant

80
City traffic

85
Hearing Damage Possible

90
Lawn mower

120
Threshold of Pain

120
Siren

130
Jackhammer

140
Jet engine at takeoff

152
.22 pistol

156
12 gauge shotgun

157
.45 ACP pistol

160
9mm pistol

164
.357 Magnum revolver


The decibel scale is a logarithmic scale, not a linear one. Each increase of 3 dB corresponds to sound that has twice as much energy (measured in pascals). Each 10 dB increase corresponds to a 10-fold increase in energy.

Loudness is a subjective thing. People might perceive a particular sound to be twice as loud when there is actually a 10-fold increase in energy. Most people cannot perceive differences in loudness of less than 3 dB.

Let's assume you have excellent electronic ear protection with an NRR rating of 29 dB. Let's use the quietest .22 caliber pistol, which has a noise level of 152 dB. Subtracting 29 from 152 still leaves you at a noise level of 123, this is still above the threshold of pain - 120 decibels. Like I said, all the calibers are too noisy.

So why do some of us still have excellent hearing after shooting for so many years? Because, gunfire is a complex, short-lived sound wave, and it doesn't travel as well through hearing protection as pure sustained tones do. The NRR rating on ear protection might actually be higher than the nominal 29 dB rating, in regards to gunfire. Yet, for "continuous" noise, the NRR rating may be reduced by as much as 50% of the nominal 29 dB rating.

So there you have it. Clear as mud.

In summary, the .45 produces less decibels than the 9mm, which produces less decibels than a full power 357 SIG. ALL of these calibers produce decibel ratings that can easily cause severe hearing loss, especially in enclosed environments. I highly recommend using one of the newer electronic ear protection devices. I know millions of people see a lot of pistol and rifle play on TV occurring outside and inside buildings where the good and bad guys don’t wear ear protection; and then they carry on regular conversations afterwards like nothing happened (no hearing loss or ringing ears, etc). Folks, that ain’t the way it is. Protect your ears for the long term. Don’t delude yourself into thinking that your ears are OK if you use a .45. Just ask a lot of old-timers who have broken ear safety rules during their lives. Be safe.

"Now hear This!", by Ralph Mroz, Combat Handguns, Sep 1998
 
#13 ·
I already admitted this a few weeks ago, in another thread about an occurance that happened several years ago with my first 1911. And I don't need any more beating about a bad decision I made.

I did get some hearing loss, and at the time it wasn't disorenting and no I don't know what extent it had effected my ears. While my ears did ring for a few minutes, I really don't want to have a repeat of the occurance either (and won't I learned my leason). I've yet to figure out a tatical ear protecion move, but I guess it would be an ideal thing to do, but unfortunately the BG's won't necessarly give a person time to rack a slide let alone put ear plugs in.
 
#14 ·
Having fired a 357 Mag inside a small enclosure without ear protection, I can say absolutely that it is loud. I've only fired a handgun a few times without ear protection, but I pay for it every day. Funny, it always seemed that the report was louer on the offhand side.
That said, there is the principal of auditory exclusion during a high stres event. I've also read that extensive training will limit the exclusion. I wonder, if you don't hear the shot, does it still affect your hearing?
 
#15 ·
Having fired a 357 Mag inside a small enclosure without ear protection, I can say absolutely that it is loud. I've only fired a handgun a few times without ear protection, but I pay for it every day. Funny, it always seemed that the report was louer on the offhand side.
That said, there is the principal of auditory exclusion during a high stres event. I've also read that extensive training will limit the exclusion. I wonder, if you don't hear the shot, does it still affect your hearing?
I have wondered this same thing too. I have heard in high stress situations such as a self defense shooting, that auditory exclusion does happen. Defense shooters as well as LE say this quite often, that they didn't even hear the shot/shot's fired. As to if it's damaging still?, that is a good question.

I was watching a LEO on the stand after he shot a perp stating he fired twice with his BUG when the BG got his primary away from him when in fact he shot all 5 rounds. He wasn't in trouble or anything because he was defending his life, but it was interesting in that he really believed he only fired twice. It's strange what your body will/can do in a very high stress situation. If we are at the range and we fired all five shot's we would hear evey one of them because we are consintrating on how loud it's going to be. Put yourself in a high stress situation and things seem to go differently.


Ti.
 
#16 ·
I started shooting early on with .22 and some other cartidge loads, as well as some black powder. All with out hearing protection. Went in to the Navy and still had better than average hearing. Yet after only two years I have a ringing in my ears so loud I'm suprised you can't hear it.

Now, I will only shoot with out ears in a desperate situation.
 
#17 ·
If I Was Claiming...

"I shot in self-defense, I feared for my life!"? Would it look bad if I still had on my electronic muffs? Just a question...

ret:urla9ub:
 
#18 ·
Don't worry about you won't remember hearing the shots. It is a nuture defense your ear drums will relax in times of stress which will cause auditory exclusion reducing your ability to hear. You will also remember everything in slow motion (time compression) and experience tunnel vision. The reason it hurt at the range was you were not in a stressfull situation at the time.
 
#21 ·
I can vouch for the tunnel vision and slow motion. I didn't (I don't think) have the auditory exclusion, but then I didn't have to fire. The BG dropped his knife as I was taking the slack out of the trigger. He was about a mm away from having a very bad night.
 
#19 ·
I have tinnitus from my time in the Army, of course they say I don't, but If I try to sleep with out the fan on..... *sigh* oh well.

I have a hole in an ear drum as well. I know what ear drops taste like after you put them in your ears...

Loud = Bad

You do not want to be where I am with your hearing. I have shot many guns, some with ear protection some with out. Didn't really bother me at the time, but the damage was cumulitive. What did me in was the training hand grenade that "killed" me.... way too close to my head....it was 14 years ago and I still have a headache....
 
#20 ·
Hey, where can you get the "electronic ear plugs". I have a set of noise cancelling stereo headphones, but have not seen the ear plugs/muffs.
 
#22 ·
http://www.topglock.com/catalog/rangegear.htm is one online store. I am sure alot of shooting accessories &gun stores carry them. All the ones I found online and locally run around $80. I haven't tried them yet, but they are on my Christmas list. :smiley2:

Hope this helps.

Charlie
 
#23 ·
#24 ·
Just like timothius I have severe tinnitus caused by 20 years (over 10,000 hours flying time) in various Air Force aircraft. Unlike commercial aircraft the military doesn't waste money on soundproofing its airplanes. In addition to the tinnitus, my total hearing has sustained considerable loss. My wife says that my favorite words are: "What?" and "Huh?" For the first few years after the tinnitus started I was like timothius in that I thought the constant ringing was going to drive me insane. I have slowly adjusted to it, but it never goes away. So, my advice to anyone out there who thinks hearing protection is overrated, I would strongly suggest you reconsider. Although I never really considered hearing protection in the event of a self defense shooting in the home, I think I will now take a close look at TI Carry's suggestion. I still try to conserve what hearing I have left by donning my ear muffs before entering the firing range on each and every visit.
 
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