Robbery gets really bad at Olive Garden. What would you do?

This is a discussion on Robbery gets really bad at Olive Garden. What would you do? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Our training group here has been practicing Mel Gibson's,"The Three Stooges Theory" of BG distraction,as seen in the movie,Lethal Weapon. Would they be expecting it....?? ...

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Thread: Robbery gets really bad at Olive Garden. What would you do?

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    Our training group here has been practicing Mel Gibson's,"The Three Stooges Theory" of BG distraction,as seen in the movie,Lethal Weapon.

    Would they be expecting it....?? I think not. It just could work. --------

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    remember they way things have turned lately espically here towards detroit .. no live victim no witness no crime

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    I am not dying on my knees in a freezer, I may die there but not on my knees.

    Hallelujah on that one.

    I was discussing with my wife, what I would have done had I been on a 9/11 flight. Basically fight it out, not die like a sheep. She felt that we would be better served by "cherishing the time we had left." Besides the fact that the time left would be spent arguing about just sitting there , there is no way I'm going down without a fight. If for no other reason than to let the SOB know he picked on the wrong person. I did have to give her credit for her opinion, though. If you KNOW you are going to die, and your actions can't stop it, I understand a little better why some people choose to not fight. I'm just not one of them.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
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  5. #19
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    JS...Good Points...

    Quote Originally Posted by js View Post
    I have reconsidered my attitude towards armed robbery because of the people being murdered even though they do not resist.

    1. I try to never go into a parking lot after dark. In their case they have no choice, I would use a technique of using a fanny pack unzipped with my hand in it holding the weapon.

    2. Survey the lot and using a walking pattern so that no one can jump out of a hiding place with no warning, allowing you time to pull your weapon and use it if necessary.

    3. Park your car under the brightest lights and in the most public area. This is what my wife and I do if we have no choice, like going after medicine for a sick child.

    4. I also like to have remote start on my car so that lights and engine starting could rattle the criminals from their hiding places. Other options would be to request LEO to escort your employees to their cars at closing.

    Just some thoughts, I know these things are easier said than done in a busy day and for people with limited funds. Itís a shame that we have to go to such extremes to protect ourselves from this scum .

    J.S.
    We can not plan 'completely' for BG scenarios...we can ALL be caught off guard...but being VERY aware in obvious areas (and all other places) could prevent being a victim. BG's select victims ahead of time...DON'T look like a victim!

    Stay alert...stay safe!

    ret
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  6. #20
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    Robbed at gun point while sitting in your car is going to be very hard to defend against. Thats what the two were doing if I'm not mistaken from the OP'ers report.

    That means the BG's waited till they were seated and trapped. Same reason LE want you to stay in your vehicle when they approach it. Unless you had a gun in your hand when they approached and acted against you, you are in some serious trouble.

    Car running? Gun it [ pun intended ], not running? Ouch, not many choices to make without making some moves that will bring about actions on their part that are not going to be conducive to your survival.

    Maybe situational awareness could have been better, maybe not, we don't know the specifics. Anyone can be caught off guard no matter how observant they think they are based on terrain and other obstacles used for cover by the BG's. They are not stupid when these things happen, this one being one of the times they thought it out well and caught the two in the car and trapped.

    The solution would have been to have a gun in your hand while moving to the car and until you were under way out of the lot. Not many will be able to do that as employees however.

    Doc,
    We have the same basic law out here, I still will not be disarmed at a restaurant, thats just the chances I'll take, no one is ever going to be the wiser until something happens I need it. Then I'll let the courts figure it out and take whatever comes down.

    Unarmed s**ks, and seldom will I abide by some stupid rule if I feel it is not prudent on my part. I'm not alive by accident or by some ordinance/law at this stage of my life and I don't plan on that changing anytime soon.

    Brownie
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bando View Post
    I assumed that my wallet was worth a human life(mine and robbers, or at least the personal torment involved in taking a human life) ...
    I also strongly believe there are those who feel my wallet is worth a human life. Not my life, though ... I'll defend that, if it's being threatened. Simple parking lot scenario thuggery or not.

    Every situation is different, of course.

    In parking lots, I try very hard to maintain my situational awareness, given the ease of nearby BG's maintaining cover. My driver's door is the only one that unlocks when the alarm/key fob is pressed. I always immediately lock the door and start the car ... before I adjust the seat and get belted in. If someone were to come up to me and begin making violent demands, he'd likely find himself severely wedged by a 3600 lb car. If merely speaking, he/they would have a chance; if becoming violent, I'd defend.

    The one and only time I ever drew was late at night in a parking lot, when two thugs surrounded me and advanced threateningly. I had just exited my car when they verbalized intent and rapidly approached. Since then (thankfully), heightened awareness, simple precautions and a bit of luck have prevailed.

    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    ... I still will not be disarmed at a restaurant, thats just the chances I'll take, no one is ever going to be the wiser until something happens I need it.
    That's about it.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  8. #22
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    bando-
    What I am told is time will distort, I will have audio hallucinations, and unless your one cool cookie, all previous plans and thoughts will go out the door
    This is true, but just like "buck fever" when hunting; the more you experience it the better you can control it. I rode on patrol with a deputy sheriff buddy for 7 years, and had several opportunities to experience commercial building searches at night, night time foot pursuits and near gun fights. The first one I was a near basket case and can hardly recall anything, the last one kinda scared me as to the level of coldness I had developed; we stopped the suspects in an abduction/rape and god help me I was looking for justification to shoot.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    The thoughts behind this post may not help to address the tactical issue in the situation, but I seem to detect some rationalizations which are being made on a premise that IMO is wrong.

    When one sates that a wallet is not worth a life "mine or the BG's" I would agree as regards my life, but as the discussions have established, my life may end whether I give the wallet or not, making this issue moot beacuse it is simply a matter of chance whether or not this guy will or won't shoot. Once he has the wallet, the next move in the game is completely out of my control, because he now has all of the cards. Unless I am willing to gamble on his good intentions for my health, I must choose to defend myself and my wallet. Therefore my life's value has little to do with the value of the wallet in this situation.

    I must choose my actions based on the value of his life, if I am to choose rationally instead of out of fear.

    The other question with the logic here, as far as I am concerned, is when you face an enemy and that enemy is on the offensive, as in this case, your initial reaction must be shaped by the terms they they are playing by. Meaning:

    I automatically assume that the BG must realize that perpetrating armed robbery could lead to his being shot by either the victim or the police (if not, I am not going to waste time accounting for his stupidity); therefore, THE PERP has already decided that my wallet is worth risking his life for, so I no longer need to contemplate this issue. If my wallet is potentially worth his life to him, and his life is certainly worth less to me than him, then my wallet is worth his life under the terms set forth by him. Hence,the BG has predetermined my attitude about his life by setting the terms.

    Of course there is no time to think of such things when the crime is happening, so the logic should be thought through ahead of time so that one's mind will be made up. ie. Bad guy with a gun tries to take my wallet = I try to stop the bad guy (which may result in his death); stopping him from taking something that he is willing to risk his life to take, and potentailly save my own life by removing his ability to choose whether or not I live or die after he has my wallet.
    Last edited by sgtD; September 25th, 2006 at 04:52 PM. Reason: Clarification & Typos
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array elrey718's Avatar
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    +1 for sgtd tht was well thought out and put my mind on this idea in perspective. it is real easy to say wht you can do but it is not as easy to do it at the time of the moment. Whn I leave my job every night I try everything that I read on here. I dont have many lights in my parking lot so I park under a lighted billboard. My company never has given me a solid answer on CCW so I keep it in my car. (I kinda need my job so as of now no risks) Everyday before I count my cash drawer I walk to my car strap up and finish up my day. As I close and lock the door I walk scanning like crazy and with me hand on my gun. Since my parking lot is so dark it looks like I am going to something in my pocket. Every since I started reading up on this site I have been more aware and have noticed things I would have ever noticed. So I thank everyone for your ideas and may we all be safe and successful when our time with a BG comes.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elrey718 View Post
    My company never has given me a solid answer on CCW so I keep it in my car. (I kinda need my job so as of now no risks)
    You have your answer, carry. If there is nothing in your written policy and you have not been told you cannot do so then you can. To be fired for it when not told it is against policy would be an unjust firing and open them up to legal action. If you are a valued employee they will address the CCW issue with you directly if it is a problem and not coverred by existing policy. If you are not a valued employee you have no job security anyway so what is stopping you?

    If the company has not given you a rule against blue boxer shorts would you ask for a written statement before wearing them? Of course you would not. The same applies to CCW. If anything you are lucky a written policy was not created simply becasue you asked about it. There is less than a 1% chance you are going to get a company to say "Why certainly you may CCW here!" The BEST you can hope for is silence on the issue. You have that.

    What has happenned to this nation. We were built on the principal of "If the people are not told No the answer is Yes!" That appliedto the Constituion and everything after. We now have the mentality of servants of the crown "If not told yes the answer is no."

    I have a new co-worker from Singapore and she has the same subservient outlook. It is frightenning that such a view is taking root here.

  12. #26
    Member Array Bando's Avatar
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    Quote : "My company never has given me a solid answer on CCW so I keep it in my car. (I kinda need my job so as of now no risks) Everyday before I count my cash drawer I walk to my car strap up and finish up my day."

    To add to musketeer's post: If you get killed because you didn't have your gun at work with you, your won't "really need" your job anymore. I think it's a bigger risk that you go unarmed all day, and get your gun at the end of the night by walking to your car unarmed, than it ever would be to carry at work. Besides, it has to look suspicious that you go to your car at the same time every day and then come back. Just an opinion.
    The Problem: When stupid people do stupid things, smart people end up getting killed.

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    elrey, check you state laws on this........

    In SC we cannot carry into our workplace UNLESS we have permission. Otherwise it's illegal carry.
    Sean
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  14. #28
    Member Array Bando's Avatar
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    that sucks.
    The Problem: When stupid people do stupid things, smart people end up getting killed.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    I also strongly believe there are those who feel my wallet is worth a human life. Not my life, though ... I'll defend that, if it's being threatened. Simple parking lot scenario thuggery or not.

    Every situation is different, of course.

    In parking lots, I try very hard to maintain my situational awareness, given the ease of nearby BG's maintaining cover. My driver's door is the only one that unlocks when the alarm/key fob is pressed. I always immediately lock the door and start the car ... before I adjust the seat and get belted in. If someone were to come up to me and begin making violent demands, he'd likely find himself severely wedged by a 3600 lb car. If merely speaking, he/they would have a chance; if becoming violent, I'd defend.

    The one and only time I ever drew was late at night in a parking lot, when two thugs surrounded me and advanced threateningly. I had just exited my car when they verbalized intent and rapidly approached. Since then (thankfully), heightened awareness, simple precautions and a bit of luck have prevailed.


    That's about it.
    If you're seated in the car and the BG gets close to your window...quickly open the door..that should get his attention.

  16. #30
    Member Array robinsonre's Avatar
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    This kind of stuff scares the hell out of me.

    I really wish my CCW permit would arrive in the mail, I feel like a sitting duck without it.
    "Life exists at a level of complexity almost beyond our ability to comprehend. It's a well known fact that if you try to take apart a cat to see how it works one of the first things you have on your hands is a non-working cat" - Douglas Adams

    "All things are governed by law" - Hippocrates

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