Attacked in fast food drive through

This is a discussion on Attacked in fast food drive through within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've been having a hard time wrapping my brain around this one. The whole LEO saying it wouldn't have been justified part. You were attacked, ...

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  1. #106
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    I've been having a hard time wrapping my brain around this one. The whole LEO saying it wouldn't have been justified part. You were attacked, you have a bruise and a torn shirt plus a witness to confirm your account.
    It could be found justifiable and maybe not but it is a hard sell to a jury because he was not armed and a cash ride to do it. The point is if there is a less then lethal means to defuse the situation then do so but never put your life on the line to so. Don’t take the Leo’s word for it because the gets paid to uphold the law and not practice it. If it ever does happen remember this... everything you tell them can be used AGAINST you and not FOR you

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  3. #107
    Senior Member Array xsigma40cal's Avatar
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    A bit confused here, where did the XD40 come in? if it was your passenger, then the reasonable belief that personal injury or death was imminent was justified since more than one party believed it necessary to draw their weapon. Escape from the scenario was impractical since you got a 5 ton boat that even had clearance issues. I'd tell the cop that [THIS IS TEXAS!!!], not Chicago.

  4. #108
    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    As I was walking back to the truck another vehicle pulls up, the driver gets out and immediately starts yelling what the f. I told the guy we had to lay the rods down to chill out. He screams Ill f you up. I tell him we are not interested in fighting we came to eat an there wasnt going to be a fight. I then started walking towards my truck again, as I see him waiving more people over. I got back in the truck and pulled up to order, as I start ordering I see someone running at my truck, I reached in my console and grabbed my g23 with a tlr3 weapons light mounted on it. The guy is right on me by now and grabs me by my shirt with one hand and choking me with the other.
    After reading this again, it seems you had words with this individual. It looks to me as if you engaged in a verbal duel and were not prepared when the other party went physical. It seems that a much better course of action would have been an apology VS "Chill Out" and whatever else might have been said. You had been fishing all night, were you also drinking beer as you fished?
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon. Go big or stay on the porch.

  5. #109
    Member Array CPanther95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsigma40cal View Post
    A bit confused here, where did the XD40 come in? if it was your passenger, then the reasonable belief that personal injury or death was imminent was justified since more than one party believed it necessary to draw their weapon. Escape from the scenario was impractical since you got a 5 ton boat that even had clearance issues. I'd tell the cop that [THIS IS TEXAS!!!], not Chicago.
    I think some here would suggest that the passenger throwing his gun at the guy would have been a good non-lethal option.

    If I'm in my car and an unprovoked idiot reaches in and starts choking me, he's going to get shot. At least in SC, your car may as well be your home. If someone walked in my back door and started choking me, I'd shoot him also.

    I haven't had a Batman Utility Belt with a variety of non lethal options available since I was a kid. I carry a handgun to protect myself and don't really have the desire to try to hide anything else on my body when I'm out in public just so I can offer varying degrees of resistance based on whether I believe I'm 40% likely to die vs 55% likely. I'm also not going to waste valuable time trying to deliver the perfect punch to the throat while sitting sideways to my attacker as he's choking the life out of me.

    If he wants a non-lethal option, he has the time it takes me to draw my weapon and press the muzzle to his chest to let go of my throat - plus another split second while I try to shove it enough to get as much of the sound blast outside the passenger cabin. But he has to subtract some time to account for my reaction time.

    Why not just gag yourself and vomit on the attacker? I don't have scientific data, but I'd wager that most violent drunks are more likely to let go of your throat if you puke on them, than if you throw a punch.

  6. #110
    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrahtDog View Post
    So, another late night what a burger trip in Texas goes south. Me and a buddy of mine were returning home from a night fishing trip passing through Winnie, Tx pulling my bay boat. As we pulled up to the drive though there was a car already ordering in front of us. We both hopped out walked back to the boat and removed our fishing rods from the verticle rod holders so we could make the overhead clearence and laid them in the bottom of the boat. As I was walking back to the truck another vehicle pulls up, the driver gets out and immediately starts yelling what the f. I told the guy we had to lay the rods down to chill out. He screams Ill f you up. I tell him we are not interested in fighting we came to eat an there wasnt going to be a fight. I then started walking towards my truck again, as I see him waiving more people over. I got back in the truck and pulled up to order, as I start ordering I see someone running at my truck, I reached in my console and grabbed my g23 with a tlr3 weapons light mounted on it. The guy is right on me by now and grabs me by my shirt with one hand and choking me with the other. I turned towards him and leaned back across the console in one motion and brought the pistol up level with his face with my weapons light on. He was blinded and started swinging wildly. As I was taking the slack out of my trigger I saw the springfield xd 40 cal fly by my head from the passenger seat. Finally the guy snapped and realized what was going on, it looked like he saw a ghost, he just started backing away stumbling. I requested the guy on the drive through speaker to call the law and called them myself. The guy was obviously wasted drunk and took off before the police arrived. I ended up having one scratch on my neck and half my shirt ripped off and a bruise on my chest. I filed assault charges on the guy, and am trying to talk law enforcement into making it a felony assault due to choking. The people at the what a burger new him and id'd him. He currently is on deferred adjudication in another county for 3rd degree felony auto theft/ins fraud. Has been convicted of theft and then another for burglary of a habitation. He is also currently indicted for 8 felonies from the feds. Two days later my ccw permit shows up in the mail, kinda ironic huh? How did I handle it, what would you have done different? Seems like the weapons light hurt and helped me. He did not realize he was about to eat a 165 gr cor bon, he just thought it was a flashlight. But it obviously blinded him. The cops told me I was right not to shoot because it wouldnt have been justified, not real sure if Im buying into that one. Havent gotten a chance to take my TX chl class yet, got my license through FL. But I will take it the next weekend off, to learn TX law better.
    The cops were wrong!

  7. #111
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I can understand the OPs mindset and situation here. And I believe he did well.

    For those of you who remember my thread about being attacked by two idiots while assisting an older black an who had crashed his bicycle in the middle of a rural road at night( due to his slight intoxication and shoe string getting caught in the chain and pedal), things happen quickly and for seemingly no reason. Even though I had a G26 IWB, the thought of drawing never entered my mind. Sometimes, you just have to roll with it, and let your instincts guide you.

    That's why, while I think training is a positive thing, it cannot be taken for granted that it will give you the solution for every encounter. A cool head, is always the best way to go, and the use of deadly force is always, always, the very last resort. But of course that is up to the interpretation of the one in the thick of it.

    Just because one may be justified does not mean it is the best course of action at the time.
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  8. #112
    VIP Member Array Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post
    I think some here would suggest that the passenger throwing his gun at the guy would have been a good non-lethal option.

    If I'm in my car and an unprovoked idiot reaches in and starts choking me, he's going to get shot. At least in SC, your car may as well be your home. If someone walked in my back door and started choking me, I'd shoot him also.

    I haven't had a Batman Utility Belt with a variety of non lethal options available since I was a kid. I carry a handgun to protect myself and don't really have the desire to try to hide anything else on my body when I'm out in public just so I can offer varying degrees of resistance based on whether I believe I'm 40% likely to die vs 55% likely. I'm also not going to waste valuable time trying to deliver the perfect punch to the throat while sitting sideways to my attacker as he's choking the life out of me.

    If he wants a non-lethal option, he has the time it takes me to draw my weapon and press the muzzle to his chest to let go of my throat - plus another split second while I try to shove it enough to get as much of the sound blast outside the passenger cabin. But he has to subtract some time to account for my reaction time.

    Why not just gag yourself and vomit on the attacker? I don't have scientific data, but I'd wager that most violent drunks are more likely to let go of your throat if you puke on them, than if you throw a punch.
    Ah, the puke technique.


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  9. #113
    Member Array CPanther95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Ah, the puke technique.
    Three thousand Illinois State Policemen can't be wrong.

  10. #114
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    Hind sight is 20/20 and everybody is a great Monday morning QB. YOu survived and so did the BG. Personally I would have driven off as soon I the dude started cursing. You could have gotten food somewhere else. When you are carrying always look for a way out of trouble even if it means leaving with your tail between your legs.
    It's gonna be a lot of slow singing and flower bringing if my burglar alarm starts ringing.

  11. #115
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DukeoftheD View Post
    Hind sight is 20/20 and everybody is a great Monday morning QB.
    It's a discussion thread in the Scenarios forum, with the purpose being to evaluate and learn from the pros/cons of situations folks are faced with. Lacking the ability to turn back the clock, for lack of a better term "quarterbacking" is what we're left with.

    I, for one, love to see different situations and how people are faced with handling them as they blow sideways. It's always great food for thought. To my way of thinking, it's an invaluable part of thinking through some the shades of gray and tough choices one has when such things occur.
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  12. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    After reading this again, it seems you had words with this individual. It looks to me as if you engaged in a verbal duel and were not prepared when the other party went physical. It seems that a much better course of action would have been an apology VS "Chill Out" and whatever else might have been said. You had been fishing all night, were you also drinking beer as you fished?
    First of all, telling someone to chill out and explaining to them what you are doing is not provoking someone. Its trying to calm him down not a verbal duel. If he wanted to go physical at that point, that would have been a great time for me since I was not confined to the cab of my truck. A little H2H and he would have been done. He obviously waited til later when I was confined in my truck and ordering my food to get an upper hand at attacking me. So he thought. Also if you had the reading comprehension of most elementry school students you would know by now that I dont drink and had not been drinking. Thanks for your great contribution to this thread.
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  13. #117
    Member Array goldmaster's Avatar
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    DrahtDog,
    You did good!
    If you died today and stood in front of God and He asked you " Why should I let you into My Heaven?" what would you say?

  14. #118
    Member Array DukeoftheD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    It's a discussion thread in the Scenarios forum, with the purpose being to evaluate and learn from the pros/cons of situations folks are faced with. Lacking the ability to turn back the clock, for lack of a better term "quarterbacking" is what we're left with.

    I, for one, love to see different situations and how people are faced with handling them as they blow sideways. It's always great food for thought. To my way of thinking, it's an invaluable part of thinking through some the shades of gray and tough choices one has when such things occur.
    No doubt. I agree with you. But we are still Monday morning QB's dissecting a situation from a position of comfortable security lacking responsibility of an unforeseen mistake. I was a Monday morning QB with my response. All I ment was he was a successful survivor and anyone can critique him from a point of 20/20 vision. If you or I were in said situation our vision could have been obscured the same as his resulting in a fatal mistake. As a survivor we should not take away the fact that he is a survivor and a winner and we have presumably no better advice than the game winning actions that the OP went with.
    It's gonna be a lot of slow singing and flower bringing if my burglar alarm starts ringing.

  15. #119
    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrahtDog View Post
    Also if you had the reading comprehension of most elementry school students you would know by now that I dont drink and had not been drinking. Thanks for your great contribution to this thread.
    Flattery will get you nowhere. You should at least spell elementary correctly, you seem to be the one lacking education.
    Besides, you are carrying a lethal weapon De-escalation is the rule of the day. It is not always what you say that gets you in trouble, but how you say it.
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  16. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    I wonder what the tab is on zimmerman so far... he shot an unarmed man that was attacking him too. yea I know he wasn't in his car but shooting an unarmed man is a hard sell to a jury.
    The only similarity to Zimmerman is the unarmed part. That is all. The rest is totally different. So the analogy is weak. I respect your generalized issue about shooting an unarmed person. Its very important. This guy was through the window, of huge size, and choking/attempting to choke the OP. The OP had a witness and attempted to de-escalate. The fact that the guy was drunk is legally irrelevant.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrahtDog View Post
    I cant tell you for sure why I didnt shoot him, alot of reasons I guess. Hell, I went out that night to put my buddy on some fish and have a good time not kill somebody. Ive been in a whole lot of fights in my younger days, I never felt like I was in fear for my life in this situation. I didnt feel like I had to shoot him. But at the same time somebody else maybe somewhere else you change the situation just a little, I very well could have felt that way and would have pulled that trigger immediately with no hesitation. Legal repercussions, even though I felt it was justified obviously the cops didnt, how would a jury have felt. I make good money, but dont have money to burn. Thats the best explanation I can give, I know its not a whole lot.
    Thank you for posting this. You are desensitized and have a violence threat threshold from your past along with some level of physical skills to deal with it. One of the benefits: It helps your judgement. You never felt grave imminent harm or worse.

    Well done and thanks for adding the color.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
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