Threats at contact distance

Threats at contact distance

This is a discussion on Threats at contact distance within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I haven't seen this discussed much, but I have used a technique on a threat at contact distance that IMO is very effective, when used ...

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Thread: Threats at contact distance

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Threats at contact distance

    I haven't seen this discussed much, but I have used a technique on a threat at contact distance that IMO is very effective, when used appropriately.

    In many cases, if a threat at contact distance can be neutralized by H2H, such as grabbing the gun or arm, that is best. In other cases, when it is advisable to do a tactical withdraw, use your offhand to shove the BG in the chest. This allows you to withdraw while at the same time stunning the BG, and negating his forward movement.

    I haven't done this a lot, and it may be tactically inadvisable, but it did work for me very well the one time I did it. Drunk that pulled a knife on his GF right in front of me during an interview (working security). I shoved him back as I drew and moved off line to get a better angle on the situation.

    Any thoughts on this technique?
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    Actually this is a very good technique and we trained for this just the other weekend in a combat pistol class I took.

    The only thing different I would do is strike at the BG's neck/throat instead of his chest. The throat is much better at stunning a person were they will have to stop and try and regain there breathing. The chest is solid and will not cause a damaging blow like the throat will.


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    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Agreed. If you feel you have to draw, then you're gonna have to be prepared to shoot. Shooting is gonna get a BG just as well as a neck shot if you hit them hard enough. In the years I did bouncing I had a poolstick broken across my left bicep, I've been kicked in the groin a dozen or so times, and been threatened with beer bottles. In every instance I immeadiately went for blood.

    The tactic I found best is to hit them very hard in the shins with something - poolsticks were good weapons - because when hit there, people instintively grab them. When they grab their shins with their guard down, you can do two things depending on how violent the aforementioned BG is. 1) You can knee/kick to their groin or face or 2) Punch them in the ear. Either one will knock someone down.

    A violent strike to the ear will destabilize a person's equalibrium VERY briefly (we are talking in terms of 3-5 seconds) and cause massive pain. They WILL be on the ground. At this point, I would roll them onto their stomach, pin their hands between my knee and their back, and start pointing at bystanders and telling them to call 911.

    I have only done this two times with people who were clearly and very intoxicated. That tactic was tought to me by one of our regulars who was a LEO from the next county over. I'm not sure that I would be so quick to try something like that on a person I hadn't been observing for a few minutes, but it is something to consider. I would highly reccomend practicing this with a friend before even considering attmpting it. Hitting someone in the ear is harder than it sounds, and if the perp is a rather large individual, it can be tough to roll them onto their stomach.

    Of course, I wasn't allowed to carry there, either. That policy made me rather angry because the pool hall attracted three types of people - college kids, salty older gents, and drunks of all types and ages. Not exactly a group that gets along very well.
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    Member Array djturnz's Avatar
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    I read somewhere to push/ put your hand in his face, to distract as well as disorient.

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    I'd strike before I'd push or shove. Pushing just pisses them off, striking tells them you aren't playing around.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

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    The shove and go tactic is taught in handgun classes and seems to be an accepted method of making distance and/or escape.

    A couple of things. One, the throat is a small target; if you miss it you may be in an even bigger mess than you were. Two, if you intend to shove, draw and fire, you need to be very aware of where the hand/arm you shoved with is - you don't want to shoot it.

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    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
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    One is more likely to be involved in a H2H incident that a gun fight, so preparedness in that arena should also be considered. I am quite certain that many individuals here have had some form of basic fighting training (especially those in ground force military and law enforcement).

    While formal training would be recommended, any amount of training is better than none.

    I am not, at the moment, a practitioner of any of the hand to hand combat stlyes. I have had some training, and feel comfortable if faced with an aggressor, that I could fend them off, or at least keep them guessing about my next move.

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    Member Array djturnz's Avatar
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    Ex Member Array something's Avatar
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    ya..the throat's VERY sensitive...it will make you feel like you're dieing if you get hit right...the most uncomfortable feeling on earth is not being able to breath!
    and a one handed push to a grown man isn't going to much especially if he's balanced and coming toward you!

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    I don't see how the throat would be a hard target at all, it's the largest pressure point target on the body. I measure 18 inches from the tip of my pinky to my elbow if I am holding my hand as if to strike a blow into someone's throat. If I strike upwards and into the throat of the BG I am going to hit it with some part of those 18 inches and it will be extremly painful and he will go down gasping for air. I have trained like this for several years (Tenshin Aikido and DTT) and it works and will work in a situation like this.

    In the combat pistol class I took the other weekend my instructor taught to push off, gain distance, draw and shoot, very quickly. I didn't mentioned anything about the throat cause it was his class but that is what was recomenned when in a situation like this. I play hard, will hit hard and the throat is just the beginning of it if I am defending myself. Breaking a pool stick over someone's shin's is not likely unless your in a pool hall, and kicking in the shin's is not effective enough in a life or death situation, I want instant stopping power and the throat is the best starting point.


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    Member Array tnoisaw's Avatar
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    I was taught in my Jujitsu class years ago to push on the neck right above the sternum, where one would get a tracheotomy. This will move the biggest person.
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    Ex Member Array something's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnoisaw View Post
    I was taught in my Jujitsu class years ago to push on the neck right above the sternum, where one would get a tracheotomy. This will move the biggest person.
    i'm a blue belt in aiki jujitsu.....and yes this is a very key point...simply push in and down like you're trying to go under the sternum and it will hurt...do it to yourself right now and realize how little pressure it takes...........but....a much smaller target than the throat in reference to the OP scenario.

  13. #13
    Member Array exit42's Avatar
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    Duck, cover your head and side with your off hand and arm, draw and shoot as soon as the muzzle clears the holster all while moving backwards or sideways. Then keep shooting until the threat has been neutralized. I would not try to wrestle around with the guy or try to get to his throat, etc. (my 2 cents).
    ...one jagged hole!

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    p.s. I practice this all the time when I'm at the range. I start at arms distance from the target and move quickly while emptying the pistol and even do a t. reload. FUN FUN!
    ...one jagged hole!

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    exit42,

    I would agree with that if all you train in is moving, covering up and shooting and you do not train in H2H incounters. If I am close enough to touch him, I am close enough to inflict damage. There are many times that a gun is not the answer and I believe you have to prepare in several way's to react to a situation that will never be the same.

    This also depends on if your attacker has his gun already drawn down on you or is starting to draw down on you, you might not have a choice but to go in H2H to prevent him from shooting you. A stationary target that doesn't move and can't react or fire back is a far cry from real life encounters.


    Ti.
    Last edited by Ti Carry; September 22nd, 2006 at 06:26 PM. Reason: spelling as usual.
    Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!

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