Breaking up a fist fight...

This is a discussion on Breaking up a fist fight... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; No friend of mine would get drunk, pick a fight and then rely on me to win it for him. That's just the way it ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    No friend of mine would get drunk, pick a fight and then rely on me to win it for him. That's just the way it is for me. If you're stupid enough to get drunk and pick a fight, that's your own problem. I'm not fixing it for you. Actions have consequences.

    Just follow the rule of stupid and you'll be fine.
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  3. #17
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    Don't drink to excess, don't go to bars...we already know those rules, it just takes time for many of us to let them sink in...
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  4. #18
    Ex Member Array ComplexKaos's Avatar
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    I don't drink and this is a reason why I don't go out with anyone who does drink. You can have a good time without getting wasted, its possible but for others its hard.

    If I ever get put in that situation, I'm getting my friend out of there and then we are having a long talk. If he continues to go out drinking then he will be on his own with no back up.

    I'll be out in Vegas next weekend and a dozen partners are going I won't be with them outside of a few hours , hopefully nothing happens but I will intervene to save their jobs if necessary.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexKaos View Post
    I hope you wouldn't let your friend drunk or not get beat up by two guys. If you would, that's a punk move by not helping him regardless of his situation.
    The situation was: a drunkard criminally provoked the assault. Deciding to jump in to defend such a crime makes one's legal situation really simple. Had the situation been that he was attacked by others, well that's something else entirely.

    In short: friends don't provoke friends to commit felony crimes.

    For some, "regardless of the situation" means blindly jumping in irrespective of the costs or criminality involved. For others, circumspection has value. We all make our choices in this life. We all get known for them, generally speaking. And we all must live with them.

    Assuming this assault occurred in the OP's state, Arizona:

    Arizona Criminal Code 13-404. Justification; self-defense

    A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, a person is justified in threatening or using physical force against another when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force.

    B. The threat or use of physical force against another is not justified:

    1. In response to verbal provocation alone; or

    2. 2. To resist an arrest that the person knows or should know is being made by a peace officer or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, whether the arrest is lawful or unlawful, unless the physical force used by the peace officer exceeds that allowed by law; or

    3. 3. If the person provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force, unless:

      (a) The person withdraws from the encounter or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely withdraw from the encounter; and

      (b) The other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful physical force against the person.



    13-406. Justification; defense of a third person

    A person is justified in threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force against another to protect a third person if, under the circumstances as a reasonable person would believe them to be, such person would be justified under section 13-404 or 13-405 in threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force to protect himself against the unlawful physical force or deadly physical force a reasonable person would believe is threatening the third person he seeks to protect.


    13-301. Definition of accomplice

    In this title, unless the context otherwise requires, "accomplice" means a person, other than a peace officer acting in his official capacity within the scope of his authority and in the line of duty, who with the intent to promote or facilitate the commission of an offense:

    1. Solicits or commands another person to commit the offense; or
    2. Aids, counsels, agrees to aid or attempts to aid another person in planning or committing an offense.
    3. Provides means or opportunity to another person to commit the offense.
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    A couple days ago there were 2 guys fighting in the street some guy was in his house and thought he would go break it up he intervened and got shot twice then the 2 guys ran off.
    If your buddy has a drinking problem I would encourage him to stop drinking and get help,in some places you intervening in a fight that escalates into you shooting somebody may lead a Prosecutor into charging you after he decides that you escalated a fist fight looking to shoot somebody,In most States it's illegal to carry into a bar,and if you run to your car and retrieve a gun instead of calling 911,"Guess what"
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  7. #21
    Member Array hfjeff's Avatar
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    I was taught in class that a court would look at the situation and if there is any possible escape path, that is what you must choose rather than engaging. It has to be a life threatening situation or you will see jail time at the expense of bailing out a drunk friend-again. Even exposing a weapon in a situation is viewed as "using" the weapon, even if no shots are fired. Situations can get heated quickly, but it takes a very level head to manage them correctly.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    "The Stupid Rule." That is, "Don't hang out with stupid people, don't go to stupid places, and don't do stupid things."
    This is good advice
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  9. #23
    Ex Member Array ComplexKaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    The situation was: a drunkard criminally provoked the assault. Deciding to jump in to defend such a crime makes one's legal situation really simple. Had the situation been that he was attacked by others, well that's something else entirely.

    In short: friends don't provoke friends to commit felony crimes.

    For some, "regardless of the situation" means blindly jumping in irrespective of the costs or criminality involved. For others, circumspection has value We all make our choices in this life. We all get known for them, generally speaking. And we all must live with them.
    And who said anything about provoking a friend to fight? I would never do anything like that.

    That's why you remove them and If you can't do so before a fight happens, then you help your friend and then get out. No one is saying stand there and fight for minutes on end.

    What kind of man would stand there and let his friend fight two guys and possibly get beat down? Not this one and you don't have to pull a gun in every situation.

    But obviously many people go straight to their gun when they get scared or feel threatened. There are situation in which you can handle a person by using your hands and you don't have to be a martial artist.

    What happens when you don't have a gun or knife on you and you have to fight then what? Some are so reliant on the gun and knife that they become deers in headlights on that dark road and can't handle themselves when they are without those tools.

  10. #24
    Member Array dbrow6272's Avatar
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    Sounds like you need a new friend to me. One of my favorite quotes "Stupid is as stupid does".
    "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready" TR

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexKaos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    In short: friends don't provoke friends to commit felony crimes.
    And who said anything about provoking a friend to fight? I would never do anything like that.
    Perhaps not, but the OP's "friend" apparently would, by virtue of daring to commit such an act in his presence. It was his deliberate actions of criminal assault I was speaking of, generalizing it to say that friends don't do that.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  12. #26
    CJM
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    Always avoid the three stupids.

  13. #27
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    In SC, you would have no justification to use deadly force to protect him, or yourself if you got yourself involved. And since you'd be foolish to bring a gun into a situation in which you can't use it, your choice is to either disarm before stepping in, or don't step in.

    I know they say that you don't want to bring a knife to a gun fight, but legally speaking, you don't want to be the idiot that brought a gun to a fist fight.

  14. #28
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    I would Pepper spray all three of them and watch the fun..... Sounds like you friend needed some parking lot training on manners

    Something to remember... if you get involved you stands to lose your CCW permit; is it worth it for his stupidness

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    As others have said, follow the "stupid rules". If your friend wants to act that way, he deserves what he gets.

    Carry OC spray for those times when you feel like you might need to break up a fight.
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  16. #30
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I quit hanging out with folks who do stupid things when they drink a long, long time ago.

    When I was still doing what the OP was doing, I would have simply removed the friend from the bar myself and we would have left. Probably would have asked the two other fellows to get the door for me while we headed out. Nothing good is going to come out of getting in a fight in a public place when it can be avoided. Back then I would have rather gotten into it with the buddy than the strangers. Me and the buddy can have a beer when it is done and talk about how stupid it was to be picking fights.

    As far as whether or not having a gun would make any differnece, it shouldn't. If you put yourself in a position to get a butt whoopin and your loosing, suck it up, you will heal and be a bit smarter when things are done.
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    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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