CCer fights back in St. Louis

This is a discussion on CCer fights back in St. Louis within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Read this in the local paper! Robber, concealed-carry permit holder exchange gunfire : Stltoday...

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Thread: CCer fights back in St. Louis

  1. #1
    Member Array lokin4deer's Avatar
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    CCer fights back in St. Louis


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    Member Array pappou68's Avatar
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    Geezer power! Needs to be a better shot though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pappou68 View Post
    Geezer power! Needs to be a better shot though.
    Dark street at night, we don't know the distance, and fearing for his and friends lives. I will not find fault with him missing his target.
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    A miss is as good as a hit if it stops the threat. And nowhere did it mention that the old guy missed; the BG could have fled wounded.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    A miss is as good as a hit if it stops the threat. And nowhere did it mention that the old guy missed; the BG could have fled wounded.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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    VIP Member Array Brass63's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good outcome... though it would have been better if he'd dropped the stolen property during his hasty retreat.
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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    I sure as heck hope it was a six shot revolver. I'd not empty mine in the event he decided to come back!
    Hiram25
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    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    He's lucky he or one of his friends wasn't shot because of his actions.

    The robber already had the money and was running away with NO shots fired until the old guy decided to be a hero and opened fire. Not a smart move.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    The robber already had the money and was running away with NO shots fired until the old guy decided to be a hero and opened fire. Not a smart move.
    Had he merely opened fire to shoot at a fleeing felon in retribution for (instead of prevention of) the crime, yes.

    But that's apparently not what occurred ...

    Quote Originally Posted by From the article
    The victims complied, police said. As the robber ran westbound along Olive, he turned and pointed his weapon at the victims, police said. The 71-year-old man, who has a concealed-carry permit, drew his revolver and fired five shots at the robber, they said.
    If, as claimed, the ROBBER first aimed his weapon at the victims with clear apparent intent to fire, then it's completely justifiable and understandable. Kudos, for doing whatever was necessary to survive the attack, AND to avoid being shot when it became manifestly clear the robber was about to open fire.
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    The robber had his gun out right from the start of the robbery. "A robber approached them from behind and ordered them at gunpoint"
    He had plenty of opportunity to shoot them but he didn't. There was no "clear apparent intent to fire". The robber didn't shoot until he was shot at.
    Sure he was justified. However, it may have been a safer bet to just let him go. We'll never know what might have happened but he's lucky he or one of his friends didn't get shot possibly caused by his actions.

    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

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    Ex Member Array wolverine181's Avatar
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    the way it's worded in the article is pretty confusing, I'm gonna go ahead and not pass judgement on him though because I wasn't there nor have I read the police report

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    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    The area is on the border between a nice neighborhood and a seedy neighborhood. It is a block over & down from the Chase Park Plaza Hotel in the north end of what locals call "The Central West End."

    The old man needs to come to the range with me some time... We will get him on target...
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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Methinks there was a bit of collusion among the victims, but good for them for surviving the incident. Doubt the issue will be pushed tho'.

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    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    Generally, I tend to trust the discipline and professionalism of thieves and burglars. Sure, they're breaking the law by committing a forcible felony but there's just no way a burglar would ever EVER shoot a victim without provocation, especially if he has the goods in his hands already. Some of you just don't understand the kind of training these criminals go through. Their adherence to the Thieves Code of Honor would make a U.S. Marine blush. It's not only absurd, but a little insulting when I see some people on here cast doubt on their commitment to a crime well done.

    Shame on you.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpwing View Post
    Sure, they're breaking the law by committing a forcible felony but there's just no way a burglar would ever EVER shoot a victim without provocation, especially if he has the goods in his hands already. Some of you just don't understand the kind of training these criminals go through.
    Exactly so, Jumpwing. Naaah, robbers never, ever shoot victims once they've "succeeded" in getting the cash.

    Of course, who's to say that's all the robber wanted ... what with psychotic revelry, "juice," street cred and all the rest on the line.

    Getting the jump on someone 5ft away who has already drawn is a tough problem, if no opportunity to do so presents itself. I can see why the man didn't immediately draw and fire, at that point.

    But the moment the robber had turned away, the opportunity to become armed and ready had arrived. Damned right he then drew his firearm, awaiting what might come. Luckily for him, when the robber then showed his true, committed colors by then turning and aiming at the group as if in clear prelude to firing, he was prepared for responding appropriately.

    No telling how crappy the situation was, whether there was any cover for the group, whether there were any alternatives except the one option taken. They were certainly on their own, at the moment the robber aimed his weapon after having taken their valuables.

    Point being, for everyone's consideration: So, he just wanted cash, but soon after aimed his weapon threateningly at everyone. Not gonna fire, is he? Are you willing to bet your life on that, eh, let alone bet the lives of the ones you love most in this world?
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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