VICTIM! : At Your Door. MidNight. What Do You Do??

This is a discussion on VICTIM! : At Your Door. MidNight. What Do You Do?? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by atctimmy I have already assessed the risks of my plan and, while it may not be the best plan for everyone, it ...

View Poll Results: Door Pounds, Midnight: Woman, Scream: HELP! "LET ME IN! MAN WITH A KNIFE CHASING ME!!

Voters
105. You may not vote on this poll
  • LET HER IN, Under Guard, Call 911

    50 47.62%
  • KEEP HER OUT. CALL 911 (Even Tho She May Die In Sseconds))

    39 37.14%
  • GO OUT, ARMED. Have Her Lie Prone, Wait To See If She's Followed Or Lying.

    5 4.76%
  • OTHER: (Please Speicify In Post)

    11 10.48%
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 72
Like Tree69Likes

Thread: VICTIM! : At Your Door. MidNight. What Do You Do??

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    under a rock in area 51
    Posts
    2,548
    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    I have already assessed the risks of my plan and, while it may not be the best plan for everyone, it is best for me. It allows me a chance to help a "possible" victim while still maintaining a locked barrier between a possible BG and my family.
    This plan sounds very good and yes this is "safe" but it lacks the human factor... to give aid and comfort. I could only imagine being stalked and/or have been abused by her attacker... escaped and then someone locks you in their garage without knowing their intent and just being told the cops are coming.

    Edit: the scenario brings up an article I had run here and it talks of such a case of a woman needing help. It was cut and dry but it basically addresses what we are talking about. What if the person in the apartment never opened the door and rendered aid, she could have been killed instead of the BG

    The incident began when Okuribido followed a female resident into the complex and began bothering her, including slapping her rear end, said Oakland police Sgt. Mike Gantt.
    The woman went to a neighbor's unit and asked for help. Okuribido then kicked in the door and got inside, prompting the resident to shoot and kill him, police said.

    Read more: No charges in Oakland intruder shootings - SFGate

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #47
    Member Array scorpion12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sc
    Posts
    153
    This happened to my family... sort of.

    I was deployed to Afghanistan a couple of years ago. My fiancee was at home with my son, her daughter, and a couple of her daughter's friends. There's a bar kitty corner across the street that's only open occasionally... it's in the country.

    Anyway, the bar was open that night. My fiancee heard a gunshot. Her daughter asked her about it and whether her mom was going to call the police. She said she probably wouldn't because it's never done any good before. Several minutes later, there were several more shots heard... then the sounds of numerous cars leaving the parking lot at high rates of speed.

    There was a loud crash and a scream heard outside, then pounding on the front door and people calling for help.

    My fiancee called 911 from the upstairs and after reporting that there were people trying to break into the house, was hung up on. She called 911 back...
    People continued pounding on the front door and were shouting "SHERIFF'S OFFICE."

    My fiancee asked the 911 dispatcher to confirm whether police were outside or not. She was told they weren't.
    Moments later, she hears sirens coming down the road and multiple police cars passed the house and kept going.
    At the sounds of the sirens, the 30 plus people in the yard scattered and disappeared.

    Police cars finally arrived along with EMS.
    The bloodied individual laying on my front steps was taken away.
    Sheriff and county police investigated the incident and found 4 firearms stashed on my property that didn't belong to me. They found several more along the side of the road toe following day.

    I'm glad I wasn't home because I might not have reacted in a civilized manner... especially with panicked people trying to break my door down... there might have been more people injured that night including myself.


    Follow up to the story... the individual that was shot that night was paralyzed below the waist. His brother appeared in my driveway the next morning "looking for a set of car keys"... we think he was looking for one of the firearms that was seized by police...

    A couple of weeks after he got out of the hospital, he was in a car that was pulled over (in the same town) and the driver was arrested. (He was a passenger). Apparently, he didn't learn a lesson from the shooting and continued to hang around with a bad element.

    If something happens like this again, door remains closed. Phone dials 911 and I'm arming up and awaiting the police...

  4. #48
    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    buffalo NY
    Posts
    952
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    Immediately dial 911 while I turn on exterior lights & turn off interior lights. View exterior from bedroom window for threats. Advise person at door cops are on the way and try to ID person. If it's a neighbor or someone I know well, I'll let them in. If not, I advise wife of the situation, turn 911 over to her, then I monitor from inside (but not right in front of the door) to see the stranger's reaction to my saying the cops are on the way. Wife will be covering the approach to the front of the house with a long-arm while on the phone with 911. If the woman remains there, I'll likely do a quick visual check of the other entrances to my house which I can do from other upstairs rooms. The dog will alert us to anyone else in the house or trying to get in. Then we wait. If a man shows up the wife challenges him from the darkened bedroom window telling him to "stop right there", "stay away", and "cops are coming", while I exit the rear of the house and circle to provide cover from concealment at the opposite end of the house; probably with the 12-gauge. If he doesn't leave, I tell him "Walk away while you still can". This lets him know that there are more than one of us and he is flanked. It also plants the suggestion of danger to himself. If he leaves, perfect. If he presents a gun toward us we engage. If he presents a knife and rushes toward the house we engage. If he continues to walk toward the house without showing a weapon, I move to intercept with pepper spray while staying out of wife's field of fire.
    Wait for the cops.

    Upon thinking this through several ways it appears that the best (safest) course of action is to deny entry to an unknown person and remain inside where any shooting is likely to be deemed justified. Intercepting the man to protect the woman puts her at my back and puts me in close quarters without a good reason to shoot. That means I'd be limited to pepper spray and/or my martial arts skills. While I am quite skilled at hand-to-hand, I prefer not to get involved if possible. What if he closes and then pulls a knife? Although trained for it, I don't want to have to deal with that. There is also the possibility of a hysterical woman running out into our field of fire. Perhaps a reasonable alternative is to drag the woman inside as soon as her story is verified by the man showing up. She would have to be under guard however. Dang!

    On third thought, too bad for you lady, you ought to be more careful.

    Tricky question!
    OP: How long did it take you to figure out your plan, it's quite specific and covers many possible dangers inherent in this, an unknown situation?

    Here's an exercise I tried: after I put down the situation and the courses of action to choose, I found I was completely confused about what I'd do. So I decided to wait and think, maybe read the first few posts. BUT: I then thought: "I couldn't wait and think carefully later if this actually happened to me", in this emergency with unknowns anyone would have to act fast, and decide fast. So, I gave myself just a few seconds to decide and went with "Let her in, under guard" I have my doubts now about that, but that is what under time pressure I would have chosen. I think that's a good exercise, make up some situation that's muddled and force yourself to decide real quick what to do. Then go over it carefully and see if you get a different answer. I think the requirement in SD or Help Others situations will be fast AND wise thought. That's very hard but can be practiced.
    Last edited by detective; August 15th, 2012 at 01:41 AM.
    Hoganbeg likes this.

  5. #49
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    1,355
    -
    I wouldn't open the door (which has beveled glass - enough visibility to see if she is alone), but would open my front shades (door is in a recess, windows have view to everything but the small recess) so I could see what's going on, and call 911. The front door flood lights are motion activated, so they would be on - if not, it's a clue to shenanigans.

    My gun is always with me, so if a perp arrives and looks to be a danger to her as claimed, I'd have to consider my next move - like hand cranking a side-opening window to shout commands, or, last ditch, shooting through glass.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    KCMO
    Posts
    3,417
    Kitty Genovese
    detective, Landric and tundra like this.

  7. #51
    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    buffalo NY
    Posts
    952
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    Either you have already made your first mistake or your scenario is setup with an unrealistic omniscient given. How do you know the woman is a victim? You said it yourself, you can't see anything going on.

    There is a whole world of difference between knowing she is a victim and knowing you have a woman on your porch screaming and carrying on like she is a victim.
    OP: I just meant it as a general title of a type of situation so people would know fast what the thread was about. I thought of putting quote marks around Victim, but thought that might make others think I meant that I knew that wasn't true. Good point though, and I know no more than anyone else if she's a Victim or a "Victim". I have no secret answer. My interest is in thinking and deciding under pressure of time - because SD situation will be like that. And they may be confusing. Anyway, for me these hypothetical situations are good training, though not the usual way. At the end of the day, if ever we shoot, it'll be with our minds as much as our hands and guns.
    Last edited by detective; August 15th, 2012 at 01:48 AM.

  8. #52
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    under a rock in area 51
    Posts
    2,548
    As I said before you need layers of security me; I have a storm door with a good lock on it and full glass so even if I had to open the front door there is still a barrier between me and the subject

  9. #53
    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    buffalo NY
    Posts
    952
    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    Something very similar happened near here about 3 or 4 years ago. The lady actually jumped from a moving pickup truck to get away from her estranged husband who was kidnapping her. She ran to the closest home in a very rural area. Her estranged husband stppoed the truck and follwed her on foot to the home. The homeowner did not let her in, but he stayed on the front porch with her. When the estranged husband came up, the homeonwer covered him with his hunting rifle. The estranged husband ignored the homeowners instructions at first and kept approaching, but finally stopped before getting shot. The estanged husband sat quietly until LEO showed up. The homeowner did not have much time to assess the situation and (in hindsight) made good choices although some poeple at the time said he was a fool for getting involved at all in case the estranged husband wants revenge.
    Well, yeah, you can say he got involved in a domestic situation, or you could say it the way the Law says it: He intervened between a Kidnapper and his Victim.

  10. #54
    Ex Member Array pir8fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Mooresville, NC
    Posts
    373
    I certainly don't let her in or even open the door. I would call 911 and turn on my outside lights but that's it.

  11. #55
    Distinguished Member Array mr.stuart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    usa-southeast texas
    Posts
    1,678
    If I do not know the person,I call 911 and tell her help is on the way.
    Pain is the best teacher,but nobody wants to go to his class.


    When the past smothers the present, there is only desperation. When the future absorbs the present, life stands still. In either case a decision must be made because you only live now and you are only what you are now.

  12. #56
    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    buffalo NY
    Posts
    952
    delete
    Last edited by detective; August 14th, 2012 at 07:21 PM.

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Gulf Coast of Florida
    Posts
    9,320
    In my case, my garage is alarmed just as the house is. I'd have to turn off the alarm to the whole house to open the garage door. And I would have to open the door from the house to the garage to open it. For my garage, I have ax, power tools, chainsaw, not to mention 2 collector cars (one with extreme sentimental value). The neighborhood I live in is a gated community with security patrols and over 800 houses close together. If they singled out my house, I'd have to wonder why. Bottom line for me is I'm not opening my door or my garage, but that is based on where I live and the circumstances I am facing. I'm not knocking the idea for others, but based on my situation it isn't the best plan for me.
    mr.stuart likes this.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  14. #58
    Member Array wstrnrdr53's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Mid Tn
    Posts
    18
    I would have to agree with several in that I would secure the woman. After wife armed and on 911. We live in the country so odds are low. Always carry and would have 12 gauge in hand, outside well lit, and very good visibility. Large very protective Lab at door allowing her in and close door, secure her under cover in seperate room out of arms reach and await LE. Can often be20 to 30 min response time.
    Agree with some that not wanting to get involved is a problem now a days, but would not take chance that she might meet harm. I am not a Cop, but have LE and military training. Have own range area on property and regularly train various scenarios. Outside home is not condusive to someone being able to hide, and besides dog is very good at alerting. Of course I would take every precaution before allowing the door opened, two sets of eyes and a good set of ears all in tune. Also have a decently safe vantage point 6 to 8 feet back from door, would have her close and lock door.
    Of course everything hinges on circumstances, what is outside, also have ability to call neighbor who has clear view of front of property. If all appears kosher, neighbors view etc, then I would have to make the decision to pen or not. Time frame for LEO arrival also factors in.

  15. #59
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    15,752
    Happened to me, it was my neighbor and 13-yr-old daughter who'd fled out her bathroom window from a supposed rapist. Turns out to have been the daughter's hoax (another story in itself). But I let them in and called 911. Strangers? Not so likely. I can see who's at my door, wouldn't have it any other way.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  16. #60
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    1,393
    Quote Originally Posted by detective View Post
    OP: How long did it take you to figure out your plan, it's quite specific and covers many possible dangers inherent in this, and unknown situation?

    Here's an exercise I tried: after I put down the situation and the courses of action to choose, I found I was completely confused about what I'd do. So I decided to wait and think, maybe read the first few posts. BUT: I then thought: "I couldn't wait and think carefully later if this actually happened to me", in this emergency with unknowns anyone would have to act fast, and decide fast. So, I gave myself just a few seconds to decide and went with "Let her in, under guard" I have my doubts now about that, but that is what under time pressure I would have chosen. I think that's a good exercise, make up some situation that's muddled and force yourself to decide real quick what to do. Then go over it carefully and see if you get a different answer. I think the requirement in SD or Help Others situations will be fast AND wise thought. That's very hard but can be practiced.

    I think you have a very good point about needing a time limit, but I think that would be a more advanced form of the exercise. I took around ten minutes to think it through and type up my response. Then I read it through and made some changes. I looked at it as a chance to brainstorm in a safe environment instead of waiting 'til I'm knee deep in it. Some of it I had already thought about such as what I can see and from where, fields of fire, and what to do with the lights. Also, about the wife's role. Other aspects like, "What if he doesn't present a lethal threat but still closes on the house?", I didn't see until re-reading it. I discussed this thread with my wife and she suggested ordering the woman back off of the porch where she could be covered from the bedroom window, then me tossing her a can of pepper spray and re-locking the door.

    re: acting fast. You are safe in the house and have all the time in the world to decide what to do. It is the woman on your porch who is under pressure. You need to make the Right choices to keep yourself safe. A tactical error can have enormous consequences. Consider this: What if someone else has already called 911 to either report an altercation or suspicious activity. Say I arm myself and exit the building only to walk up on or be confronted by LE in stealth mode. Not good!

    So far, I like the garage idea best. Unfortunately, I don't have one so I'll go with the wife's pepper spray idea. Good thread!

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

911 someone yelling for help at midnight
,
a man dressed as a cop came to my door at midnight
,
can't open apartment door at midnight
,
dispatcher scenarios assist victims over the phone
,
guy pretending to be broken down shoots people
,
guy pretending to sell at your door rob you
,
midnight door 2
,
person banging on door at midnight
,

what do at night forum

,
what do you do with wife at midnight
Click on a term to search for related topics.