This is a discussion on Scenario: You come home from work & ........ within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by USPatriot Perhaps I misunderstood you, you said, "So he takes you at your word and shoots you. Now what?" I assumed this ...
Head shot. I would have walked into the room low ready and when I saw the guy my gun would slowly raise.
You greatly simplified it then buddy, because the second he takes the gun off my child he dies whether or not I get shot in the process is irrelevant at that point, I have done my job as her father. Since my daughter is about 4'1" right now, he would have to be a dwarf for me to miss him from mid chest up if he is normal height. I normally shoot sub 1" groupings at 7 yards with my pistol. Granted I would be under stress but i still think I'll be accurate enough to hit him in the case you posited without hitting my daughter.
Oh, and I have a 4 year old, and my first reaction would not be to send an adrenaline rushed bullet 6" beside my child's head. The closer you get the better the odds of hitting the BG. The closer you get the better the chance of blinding and deafening my child.
I wanted to vote, but as with most poles, I never like one single option. Too many variables, too many options. Big picture to my response though, say, do whatever is necessary to get him to move the gun away from my kid, and the second he does, open fire. Maybe even just start shooting anyway, because the natural instinct will be for him to point his gun at the threat, and once you start shooting, you will most definitly be his primary concern. You would have to judge all of the intangible and barely noticable details at the time though.
Walk softly ...
Statistically you have a 1 in 4 chance of being killed with a pistol shot (the truth about self defense by Massad Ayoob). If he was holding her up (she weighs about 100 lbs.) he is going to get tired quickly by holding her with one arm. If he raises the gun to shoot me immediately & I can't get a clear shot, I bum rush him & no matter how many shots I take, unless he kills me immediately, or paralyzes me, he will die. Is it going to hurt? Sure will, it will probably hurt like hell but I love my daughter with all my heart & until I stop breathing I simply won't stop. Better to die a man doing something to protect her than do nothing & have everyone killed.
I kill him.
"There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition
Cops would already be on their way if i noticed forced entry.
I noticed(or possibly missed) no one brought up the issue of "clearing" a building which is not a task for everyone especially those with no experience.
Last edited by Crowman; August 17th, 2012 at 01:42 AM.
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
--Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney
Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."
My daughter is 2.5 and very squirmy. He wouldn't be able to hold her 1 handed. I would wait for his mistake and pump lead int him
Glock 20sf, Glock 19 gen4, Glock 26 gen3, Colt 1911 Series 80
I believe the ultimate question here is not "what would you do if someone had a gun to your child's head" but rather "is your family better served with you making a grand entrance or waiting for authorities to arrive on scene?"
Let's think about this step by step...
Step 2: Check to see if my husband's car is in the driveway. HOWEVER, just because my husband's car is in the driveway does not mean that he is still in the house with the kids.
Step 3: Call the home phone and/or my husband's cell phone. If there is an answer we go from there.
Step 4: Try to gain intel from OUTSIDE of the residence. As I said before, there is absolutely NO reason to believe that there is anyone in the home at this moment. My husband could have gotten the kids out and gone to a neighbors house to call 911 and is there waiting. Yeah, it would be unusual for him not to call me, too, but why give a bad guy a hostage or walk into a situation without more information.
Yes, about now I would probably be drawing my firearm but I would still not make entry. I would circle the house looking for other clues that an individual is either still in the home or has left. If there's a strange vehicle parked on the street with someone sitting in the driver's seat and the engine running, then, yeah, there's probably still someone in the house. Is there a car? How did the individual get there? Can you take down a vehicle description? First, you don't know that anyone is in the house, much less where they are.
Got a good pair of binoculars in the garage or the car you can use to try to get a peek into windows? You should! What can you see?
You know your house.. going in and getting yourself into trouble means that you can't give responding officers the layout of your home. They are going in blind. You staying outside could mean a more successful response because you can give responders the layout and potential strengths and weaknesses.
But, let's say it's just getting to you too bad and you decide to go in.
Okay, well, I hope you've been at least smart about it until now. In our home the doors have key locks. We have the keys stashed. No need to break down doors.When you get to the bedroom, the door is closed & locked. After knocking, or calling out loud to see if everything is alright, there is still no sound except for a low whimper.
Anyway, finding an area in the home to stage at would be ideal. Stage in that area and wait, either for an indication of what is going on or authorities. No one is going to be completely silent for very long... especially if there are children involved. Children are likely going to be crying.
Call out from the staging area. If you don't get an answer you can assume that either a) no one is in the home b) the individuals are unable to respond either through intimidation or injury or c) everyone is dead.
It's a tough call but in order not to be a victim yourself you still need to be smart about it. If you have any home clearing training you can proceed in that manner. If you have no home clearing training you should stay out. Seriously!! You should go back out. Of course that's harder said than done when you're family is on the line.
However, if you choose to proceed it should be done carefully. Having done room clearing going to that bedroom door would be a delicate process. It would be likely that officers would have arrived by this time.
Both fortunately and unfortunately our bedroom is designed very well to be hard to access. Sneaking up on it would be hard and dangerous. Good if you are the good guy held up. Bad if you think your family is in there and want to get to them.
Now that I'm finally to the bedroom door I'm going to listen. Listen for possible position. Left of right side of the room. It will make a difference in which side of the hall I hug if/when I decide to try to make entrance. Again, I have a key so there's no need to break down the door but the door could be barricaded. I call out again and there's nothing.
Again, what evidence do I have that someone is still in the home? Any evidence to suggest the individual has left? If I have reason to believe that the individual is gone I may make entry. If I have reason to believe he's still there (an unfamiliar voice, a vehicle still on the street or in the driveway, etc) I might be more cautious.
There's a whimper in the bedroom... is there any other access point? A window perhaps or another door? An a-joining closet? Is there some way to enter or gain a vantage point that would not be expected?
If I'm thinking rationally (which, I admit could be VERY hard in this situation) I might choose to back off at this moment. I might choose to make entry.
Again, depending on what side of the room I think he is at will make a difference in which side of the hallway I hug. I don't want to be stuck in a fatal funnel. I don't want to give myself away right away either. I can unlock the door, open it and retreat to cover and try to pie the room.
What about my family.. Does my spouse (my husband in this case) seem injured. Is there a way he could gain an advantage by my being there? Is each child accounted for? Do they seem injured?
He's got a gun to my daughter's head... wow.. yeah.. that would stink.
If I'm doing my room clearing correctly I should be mostly concealed or under cover and be utilizing my space correctly. I might even have a pretty optimal shot without having to do any negotiation or without even being seen or made any demands of. If you don't think that is possible then you haven't seen what I've seen (PS.. JD is really good at this).
I've been to trainings where you are required to do room clearing AND deal with hostages. You would be AMAZED at how many people shoot the hostage. It's scary. GOOD shooters who get caught up in the moment and pull their shots or shoot for center mass which just so happens to be the hostage.
I am proud to say I have yet to shoot the hostage. However, there has been at least once where I felt I could not make the shot and had to give it over to someone else at that distance. Depending on the distance I may or may not feel confident making that shot. I would be loath, however, to put myself into the room.
If I can see that everyone is safe I'm going to stay out of the room. I might try to create a distraction with conversation so that my husband might act.
From there it depends a lot on distance, conversation, well-being of my family, etc. If already injured, all bets are off. I see no reason to believe that someone who has injured a man or children to be hesitant to do further harm. They need medical attention and that means making the scene safe any way way I can.