Scenario: You come home from work & ........ - Page 6

Scenario: You come home from work & ........

This is a discussion on Scenario: You come home from work & ........ within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by USPatriot This is the scenario, right before leaving work, you put your carry piece on, you arrive home to find that even ...

View Poll Results: What is your response

Voters
126. You may not vote on this poll
  • Tell the guy to drop it or die

    17 13.49%
  • Shoot him in the head & call the police

    80 63.49%
  • Let him escape with your child & call the police

    0 0%
  • Try to reason with him & tell him that his only way out is to let your child go.

    38 30.16%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 6 of 14 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 196
Like Tree160Likes

Thread: Scenario: You come home from work & ........

  1. #76
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Florence, SC
    Posts
    7,967
    Quote Originally Posted by USPatriot View Post
    This is the scenario, right before leaving work, you put your carry piece on, you arrive home to find that even though the door is closed, there are obvious signs that the door was forced open. You draw expecting trouble & everything is silent. When you get to the bedroom, the door is closed & locked. After knocking, or calling out loud to see if everything is alright, there is still no sound except for a low whimper. You force the door & find your wife & child(dren) held hostage in the room by a home invader. He has your youngest child at gun point specifically pointing at there head. What do you do?
    It's very interesting to read the responses. Lima and Tacman gave very realistic analysis type responses. But, in the OP above, there is very little room room given for analysis.

    There is a "obvious sign that the door was forced, yet the door is closed and locked." Hmmm, could the wife or teenage son have been locked out, and in lieu of breaking in thru a window, chose to force the door, lock it behind them and wait for you to come home, tell the story, and watch you blow a gasket while you're repairing their damage? Bottom line is, at this point, how really concerned are you?

    Okay, the OP said he was concerned enough to draw his weapon while anticipating trouble. At this point, call 911 if you are that concerned! I'm not even sure I would have called 911 at this point. However, everything is silent, so you don't know if family is home or not. So, based on the OP scenario, he obviously unlocked the door and entered.

    Still nothing is indicating any trouble as he walks thru the house (read "clear" if you must), until he gets to the bedroom and the door is closed. He "must" reach out and attempt to open the door in order to determine it was locked. Once he determined the door was locked, he now calls out and then listens for an answer. He then hears a low whimper only.

    Now, at THIS point I think any rational individual will either call 911 and call out again, or call out again, or, as in the OP scenario, "force the door"...

    The picture you are now presented with is some or all of family held hostage in the bedroom by the home invader. The invader is "holding your youngest child at gunpoint (specifically pointing at the child's head).

    WHAT WILL YOU DO is the question the OP had based on the scenario. In an ideal situation, we might all hope to react as Lima or Tacman BUT that's not what the OP asked. The decisions have ALREADY BEEN MADE up to the point of facing the invader with a gun pointed at your youngest child's head. WHAT WILL YOU DO?

    The OP gave us 4 choices...Properly clearing the house wasn't one of them...Calling 911 and waiting for a response wasn't one of them...etc etc We have 4 potential responses to choose from and I assume he wanted to know why you made the choice you made..

    My choice was "Tell the guy to drop it or die". My weapon is already drawn, per the scenario. As soon as I have breached the door and am faced with the scene in front of me, I was at low ready, but immediately step off the X as my weapon is raised and sighted. I agree, most probably because I would have a major adrenaline rush, I would only utter the one command "drop it or die", while allowing myself to get a proper sight picture. The next milleseconds to few seconds would determine two things: he drops his weapon, after seeing my determination and hearing my tone of voice and knows I will either kill him or die trying, either way he will be hurt terribly bad....OR....all of the hours of range time, training time, come into play as I raise from low ready, breathe, obtain my sight picture and squeeze the shot off. I truly believe that the shot would have to be taken. If the BG is armed, he's already resolved that he is willing to kill anyone, that is in his way, that might prevent him from accomplishing his goals for the breakin. Therefore, the only prayer I would have is for the MAN upstairs to steady my hand, guide my bullet to the target point I have chosen, and save my child and my family. THE SHOT WOULD BE TAKEN, I would virtually bet the farm on it! JMO
    Bill MO and tacman605 like this.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.


  2. #77
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,462
    First Sgt, I like your response to OP, only thing I see myself doing different is I would not tell him to drop it or die. I see this as a time for action not words. The only reason I would talk would be to give myself time to set the stage to make the shot. And YES "THE SHOT WOULD BE TAKEN" and I would also bet the farm on it. In a situation such as stated in the OP.
    tcox4freedom likes this.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  3. #78
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,220
    "Dang dude!! I can't believe you grabbed the kid who is home sick with the measles!!"

    In that moment of hesitation as he shoves the "infected" kid away, I nail him.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  4. #79
    Senior Moderator
    Array limatunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    4,246
    Quote Originally Posted by MCFLYFYTER View Post
    I don't know where you all live, but around here they don't send the swat team out for a broken door. To get a timely response, you would have to lie. It would be a long time before anyone showed up for a broken door. What do you tell them? Shots fired? Hostages? Dog died? When an officer does arrive on scene, he will have to deal with you first. If you have your gun out, that will take 15 minutes, as you will most likely be cuffed. If you don't have you weapon drawn, it will take 10 minutes to be disarmed and identified. Best case, you are looking at 30 minutes before any law enforcement even looks at the door. Then you will have 2 or 3 non trained officers clearing your house. That does not sound like good odds to me. Meanwhile, your family lost too much blood, and died. The perp got away by walking out the back door while you were proving your innocence. Does this really sound like a viable option?
    Why would you have to lie and why would you be detained?

    "911, what is your emergency?"
    "I live at xyz, abc. I just arrived home from work and see my backdoor is broken in. My wife and children stay home all day and her car is still in the driveway. I've called to them and there is no answer. No answer on her cell phone. I believe someone is in our home and they may be holding my family hostage."

    If that doesn't get a rapid response I don't know what will!!! And, see... no lying?

    Also, when you see lights, put your gun in your holster and wait for instructions... no need to be detained and questioned.

  5. #80
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,098
    Nothing like a little common sense to make the day brighter.
    limatunes likes this.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  6. #81
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    St. Charles, Missouri
    Posts
    2,358
    Hypothetical situations are not worth answering. No way to know what you would REALLY do till you are in the moment.

    God forbid this actually happens & you answer with bravado. Now a prosecutor or the scumbag's family's lawyer now has your answer on a website to use against you.

    My answer is that I have no clue what would happen given the scenario as described but that I pray I never have to find out.
    Crowman likes this.
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
    - Roy Batty

  7. #82
    Senior Moderator
    Array limatunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    4,246
    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    No offense to JD & LT. But, their responses are best scenario answers from the bias viewpoint.
    Not trying to be argumentative but I'm curious as to what you consider biased about our viewpoint?

  8. #83
    Ex Member Array wolverine181's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Metro Detroit/Ann Arbor MI
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    God forbid this actually happens & you answer with bravado. Now a prosecutor or the scumbag's family's lawyer now has your answer on a website to use against you.
    I honestly can't see anybody getting in trouble for killing a person that was aiming a gun at their child after breaking into their house, even if they said that they would kill them immediately on the internet. If that were to actually happen, I'd want the DA to be fired immediately and for people to call him rude names like "butthead" or "jerk"
    tricolordad likes this.

  9. #84
    Senior Moderator
    Array limatunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    4,246
    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    There is a "obvious sign that the door was forced, yet the door is closed and locked." Hmmm, could the wife or teenage son have been locked out, and in lieu of breaking in thru a window, chose to force the door, lock it behind them and wait for you to come home, tell the story, and watch you blow a gasket while you're repairing their damage? Bottom line is, at this point, how really concerned are you?
    In my humble opinion it's this kind of stuff that gets people killed. I'm not trying to pick on you, First Sgt.. just saying in general that that exact kind of internal silencing of the warning bells and talking yourself out of being alarmed is SOOOOO dangerous and should be fought, beat and trained out of everyone. And, yes, I'm speaking to myself here because I NOTORIOUSLY convince myself that sunshine and puppydogs are going to float from the skies in the midst of tornadoes. I could see myself doing EXACTLY this. Standing there thinking, "Oh, gee, my son must have thrown a ball and broke the door," or "JD locked his keys in the house and had to get to them."

    This is dangerous. Dangerous. DANGEROUS!!!

    Also, it should be shared with family members that things like broken doors, windows, etc, should be reported ASAP for this exact reason. I would hate for my husband to come home to this kind of a scene and start freaking out when it was really my fault the door was broken, etc. Family members should know that you coming home to find a broken door will cause WAY more drama (and possibly fire) than even a text message, email or phone call saying, "Hey, Dad, Sorry. I broke the back door. Just letting you know so you don't freak out when you come home tonight."

    If it's something you haven't talked about with your family... you should!

    Okay, the OP said he was concerned enough to draw his weapon while anticipating trouble. At this point, call 911 if you are that concerned! I'm not even sure I would have called 911 at this point. However, everything is silent, so you don't know if family is home or not. So, based on the OP scenario, he obviously unlocked the door and entered.
    In reference to the bold. I'm very surprised by how many people would not call 911 at finding their door broken in. Even if your family wasn't home and there was no bad guy in the house it's still a crime scene until proven otherwise. Why wait? You can always call them back and say, "Hey, sorry. I just found out it was an accident."

    Still nothing is indicating any trouble as he walks thru the house (read "clear" if you must), until he gets to the bedroom and the door is closed. He "must" reach out and attempt to open the door in order to determine it was locked. Once he determined the door was locked, he now calls out and then listens for an answer. He then hears a low whimper only.

    Now, at THIS point I think any rational individual will either call 911 and call out again, or call out again, or, as in the OP scenario, "force the door"...

    The picture you are now presented with is some or all of family held hostage in the bedroom by the home invader. The invader is "holding your youngest child at gunpoint (specifically pointing at the child's head).

    WHAT WILL YOU DO is the question the OP had based on the scenario. In an ideal situation, we might all hope to react as Lima or Tacman BUT that's not what the OP asked. The decisions have ALREADY BEEN MADE up to the point of facing the invader with a gun pointed at your youngest child's head. WHAT WILL YOU DO?

    The OP gave us 4 choices...Properly clearing the house wasn't one of them...Calling 911 and waiting for a response wasn't one of them...etc etc We have 4 potential responses to choose from and I assume he wanted to know why you made the choice you made..
    Well, then the choices suck!!! LOL

    In all seriousness though, no, he didn't give the option of properly clearing the house.. why not? Having had that training and knowing how VITAL it is to the potential success of this kind of a scenario I can't divorce it from my mind and options. Not without CONSIDERABLE difficulty because it exceptionally limits my chances of survival or having an outcome other than trying to hold my daughters brains in her shattered skull while praying for time to rewind (I literally shutter at the thought).

    This goes to show why that kind of training is paramount... necessary... important.. vital.. indispensable... need I go on?

    That doesn't mean you won't find yourself in the final scenario either. I addressed that in my original post. If I did things right and the stars aligned I might be able to make a shot without even being seen or having to interact with the hostage taker. That is ideal. If, however, I'm forced to confront him I can't see myself being limited to those four options alone. I think those four options were presented because they are pretty textbook. But part of these scenarios is also to think outside of the box.

    But that's just Lima theory.

  10. #85
    Member Array Aphdmansoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    United States Arkansas
    Posts
    108
    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    Since I am a ninja, he would not see me until he catches a glimspe of my hand as it pulls his still beating heart out of his chest
    Thanks for the laugh
    pgrass101 likes this.
    You can get a lot with a smile but you can get a lot more with a smile and a gun...Al Capone

    Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth...Mike Tyson

  11. #86
    VIP Member
    Array tacman605's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arkansas/On the X in Afghanistan
    Posts
    3,051
    Not trying to put down anyone's responses here, everyone would do what they had to do.

    The question I am wondering about is why take the shot if you don't have to? The ultimate goal is everyone stays alive. Period. If the suspect walks out with no one harmed the day is a victory let LE deal with him. I am getting the impression from some of the responses that no matter what the bad guy does he will die. To me this seems like you will extract your revenge because he has offended you by his actions and will die by your hand simply because he has pissed you off.

    In regards to the statements made in regards to targeting other areas of the body, legs, arms, neck and so on in the OP it stated the BG has a gun to the head of your child/SO. Yes shooting him in the leg, shoulder, neck and so on will cause him pain but he is still able to pull the trigger. Suppose you do shoot him in the leg, now he is scared and in pain and knows you will shoot him again. He is now completely backed into the corner and has nothing to lose by pulling the trigger.

    In situations like this, although hypothetical, if you decide that you have suffcient skill, equipment and mindset to take the shot, you are going to get one chance to make a final impression you need to make sure, if you have to and are up to it, to end the situation then and there. The big question still remains is "Are you and your equipment up to it?".

    In regards to the "not the time for conversations" statements, if talking to the BG brings the situation to a close with everyone alive and well then I or someone else will sit there and talk to the cow's come home. If shooting the suspect in the head everytime was the legal, moral and ethical thing to do LE and others involved with hostage type situations would simply take the shot everytime, but it isn't. If I could avoid killing someone in front of my family simply by talking to the guy I would do it. If he forced my hand then I would take whatever actions needed at that time.

    To each his own though, again not knocking anyone's responses do whatever you think is needed at the time but be careful not to let your ego, pride and emotions rule the day.
    JD likes this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  12. #87
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    St. Charles, Missouri
    Posts
    2,358
    Quote Originally Posted by wolverine181 View Post
    I honestly can't see anybody getting in trouble for killing a person that was aiming a gun at their child after breaking into their house, even if they said that they would kill them immediately on the internet. If that were to actually happen, I'd want the DA to be fired immediately and for people to call him rude names like "butthead" or "jerk"
    I can't see a guy who was trying to kill you but you shot & disabled him suing you & winning, but it happens. BGs can and have won MILLIONS from good, upstanding people who defended themselves. Hell, a guy won a boatload of cash after he climbed through a Wendy's restaurant ventilation shaft to rob the place & got hurt when the system collapsed. If i recall correctly, he shattered his pelvis in the fall & would never walk right again.
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
    - Roy Batty

  13. #88
    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    1,590
    I would talk to him nice and calm tell him just take your finger off the trigger,you don't have to put the gun down,as soon as you take the finger off the trigger,I'll put my gun down and you have whatever you want and the second the finger comes off the trigger I shoot him.
    If he does not have his finger one the trigger I shoot him.

  14. #89
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Gulf Coast of Florida
    Posts
    9,373
    BG: "Hey, I've got your"
    ME: "BANG"
    BG: thump

    Negotiations complete.



    There's a time to talk and a time to shoot....the two don't happen at the same time.
    BenGoodLuck likes this.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  15. #90
    Senior Member Array Weeg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    529
    Maybe you can punch the panic button, and a voice will come over the intercom and announce: "CPI Security, identify yourself! Intruder: LEAVE THE PREMESIS NOW!"



    /

Page 6 of 14 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

a scenario where you would have to make the scene safe in order to check the victim
,

choice of evils defense scenario

,

choice of evils scenario

,
example hostage scenarios
,

explain the choice of evils defense and create a scenario where that defense is likely to be raised.

,
scenano polo shirt
,
scenario armed breakin
,
senarios when you are put into aa sympathetic situation
,
senerio you enter home and turn on the lights and nothing happen what next
,
what is a scenario where the choice of evils defense is likely to be raised
,

why is my first reaction always defensive

,

?explain the choice of evils defense and create a scenario where that defense is likely to be raised.

Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors