Scenario: You come home from work & ........

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Originally Posted by CPanther95

If someone that saw evidence of a break-in and thought there was even a chance their wife, or child, was in the house says that they wouldn't immediately go into the house. I'd wager they are single/divorced, and never had children.

I'll call 911 after the fact because I don't want anyone, LEO included, walking around my house with guns drawn when my kids/wife might be in the house. They don't know what my family members look like, and if something had happened, there's a good chance one of them could be armed. And what if the "break in" wasn't really a break in at all? I want to be the one that makes the call or takes the shot (or not) when it comes to my family - especially in my own home. If LE was willing to stay back and let me take point, I wouldn't mind that, but I doubt they would take too kindly to that.

But there's not a chance in hell that if I thought a BG had my wife and kids in my house and was possibly assaulting or killing them would I stand down on the driveway twiddling my thumbs waiting for someone to come and check it out.

... and if that really is your plan, I'd suggest you not tell your wives. She'll likely tell you that if you aren't going to use your guns to protect your own family in your own home, you don't need to be spending any more money on firearms ... or she'll take one of your guns and give it to the first man she finds that will.

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Best response here

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Originally Posted by ericb327

I'm just saying it won't be like at the range.

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No gunfight ever will be like at the range.

Funny- I notice very many on this board poo-poo practicing taking long shots, saying instead that close-range is all you need to train for.

Yet, when this scenario is brought up, many say they aren't trained for taking this kind of shot...

So, exactly what do you train for :confused:

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Originally Posted by ScottM

No gunfight ever will be like at the range.

Funny- I notice very many on this board poo-poo practicing taking long shots, saying instead that close-range is all you need to train for.

Yet, when this scenario is brought up, many say they aren't trained for taking this kind of shot...

So, exactly what do you train for :confused:

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Some people think too much. Others talk too much. Some do both. I can only think of one guy I know personally who might be legitimately accused of training too much.

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Originally Posted by ScottM

No gunfight ever will be like at the range.

Funny- I notice very many on this board poo-poo practicing taking long shots, saying instead that close-range is all you need to train for.

Yet, when this scenario is brought up, many say they aren't trained for taking this kind of shot...

So, exactly what do you train for :confused:

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Scott, most CCer's can be found in the blog:

Handguns: the American Talisman? | Shooting Wire

"It’s true that a handgun doesn’t look like your Fairy Godmother’s Magic Wand or a rabbit’s foot. The answer to the question “Which one of these doesn’t belong?” is fairly obvious. Despite that, most gunowners don’t spend the amount of time training and practicing with their handguns that we of the ‘cognoscenti’ would like them to.

Still, every year hundreds of thousands of people, who have had no training whatsoever and who seldom practice, successfully defend themselves with firearms, often small ones, from villains intending them harm. Accordingly the statement: “But you need to actually train with said gun and practice often if you expect to save your life with it one day” isn’t necessarily true. In fact, there’s not much real evidence to back up that kind of statement at all............


So when they find themselves in a situation that needs training to get out of they stand there with the thumb up their *** waiting for 911 to get them out of the mess, just like those who don't carry in the first place. Most think the sight of a gun will make the BG run screaming for mommie.

OK, off my rant!!!....... but guys it's time to go back to yesteryears and grow a pair. Be a man! Yes you can take care of the problem, you don't have to wait for someone else get hold your hand.

Yes I'm done!

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Originally Posted by CPanther95

If someone that saw evidence of a break-in and thought there was even a chance their wife, or child, was in the house says that they wouldn't immediately go into the house. I'd wager they are single/divorced, and never had children.

I'll call 911 after the fact because I don't want anyone, LEO included, walking around my house with guns drawn when my kids/wife might be in the house. They don't know what my family members look like, and if something had happened, there's a good chance one of them could be armed. And what if the "break in" wasn't really a break in at all? I want to be the one that makes the call or takes the shot (or not) when it comes to my family - especially in my own home. If LE was willing to stay back and let me take point, I wouldn't mind that, but I doubt they would take too kindly to that.

But there's not a chance in hell that if I thought a BG had my wife and kids in my house and was possibly assaulting or killing them would I stand down on the driveway twiddling my thumbs waiting for someone to come and check it out.

... and if that really is your plan, I'd suggest you not tell your wives. She'll likely tell you that if you aren't going to use your guns to protect your own family in your own home, you don't need to be spending any more money on firearms ... or she'll take one of your guns and give it to the first man she finds that will.

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Originally Posted by RubenZ

Best response here

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I tend to agree even if he;s a "CPanther" & not a "CTiger". :wink::hello:

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Originally Posted by Bill MO

Scott, most CCer's can be found in the blog:

Handguns: the American Talisman? | Shooting Wire

"It’s true that a handgun doesn’t look like your Fairy Godmother’s Magic Wand or a rabbit’s foot. The answer to the question “Which one of these doesn’t belong?” is fairly obvious. Despite that, most gunowners don’t spend the amount of time training and practicing with their handguns that we of the ‘cognoscenti’ would like them to.

Still, every year hundreds of thousands of people, who have had no training whatsoever and who seldom practice, successfully defend themselves with firearms, often small ones, from villains intending them harm. Accordingly the statement: “But you need to actually train with said gun and practice often if you expect to save your life with it one day” isn’t necessarily true. In fact, there’s not much real evidence to back up that kind of statement at all............


So when they find themselves in a situation that needs training to get out of they stand there with the thumb up their *** waiting for 911 to get them out of the mess, just like those who don't carry in the first place. Most think the sight of a gun will make the BG run screaming for mommie.

OK, off my rant!!!....... but guys it's time to go back to yesteryears and grow a pair. Be a man! Yes you can take care of the problem, you don't have to wait for someone else get hold your hand.

Yes I'm done!

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You can take a breath now Bill..:wink: Well put.

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by CPanther95 View Post
If someone that saw evidence of a break-in and thought there was even a chance their wife, or child, was in the house says that they wouldn't immediately go into the house. I'd wager they are single/divorced, and never had children.

I'll call 911 after the fact because I don't want anyone, LEO included, walking around my house with guns drawn when my kids/wife might be in the house. They don't know what my family members look like, and if something had happened, there's a good chance one of them could be armed. And what if the "break in" wasn't really a break in at all? I want to be the one that makes the call or takes the shot (or not) when it comes to my family - especially in my own home. If LE was willing to stay back and let me take point, I wouldn't mind that, but I doubt they would take too kindly to that.

But there's not a chance in hell that if I thought a BG had my wife and kids in my house and was possibly assaulting or killing them would I stand down on the driveway twiddling my thumbs waiting for someone to come and check it out.

... and if that really is your plan, I'd suggest you not tell your wives. She'll likely tell you that if you aren't going to use your guns to protect your own family in your own home, you don't need to be spending any more money on firearms ... or she'll take one of your guns and give it to the first man she finds that will.

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Can argue with the above..

Before you pull the trigger, you have to consider your ability, Can you hit a 6" diameter moving target?? If you graze him all it will do is piss him off and chances are your child will be killed.
NOW, that being said, I would take the shot and 9 more.

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Originally Posted by tarcher

Before you pull the trigger, you have to consider your ability, Can you hit a 6" diameter moving target?? If you graze him all it will do is piss him off and chances are your child will be killed.
NOW, that being said, I would take the shot and 9 more.

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Welcome to the forum. If you were the BG in this scenario and the father shot you and grazed you, would you try and shoot the guy with the gun trying to kill you or shoot the little kid out of spite?

I don't have children. I only voted the "reason with him" because if I come home from work, all I have is a j-frame. I'm not exceptionally accurate with my j-frame. I can hit the target and make maybe 5-6" group at 7 yards.... but making a headshot when my child is in very close proximity is not worth the risk. If I had time to grab my AR, I hold 1.5" over target.... dude's dead.

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Originally Posted by RKM

I don't have children. I only voted the "reason with him" because if I come home from work, all I have is a j-frame. I'm not exceptionally accurate with my j-frame. I can hit the target and make maybe 5-6" group at 7 yards.... but making a headshot when my child is in very close proximity is not worth the risk. If I had time to grab my AR, I hold 1.5" over target.... dude's dead.

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RKM, dont take this the wrong way, but if all you have is your J-frame and you feel its not effective enough for this situation, maybe you should consider a better weapons system.

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Originally Posted by CPanther95

If someone that saw evidence of a break-in and thought there was even a chance their wife, or child, was in the house says that they wouldn't immediately go into the house. I'd wager they are single/divorced, and never had children.

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That is rather presumptuous.

Happily married with two kids... never been divorced and I still think the kind of actions advocated in this post are foolhearty. My spouse agrees with me on the matter as well.

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I'll call 911 after the fact because I don't want anyone, LEO included, walking around my house with guns drawn when my kids/wife might be in the house. They don't know what my family members look like, and if something had happened, there's a good chance one of them could be armed. And what if the "break in" wasn't really a break in at all? I want to be the one that makes the call or takes the shot (or not) when it comes to my family - especially in my own home. If LE was willing to stay back and let me take point, I wouldn't mind that, but I doubt they would take too kindly to that.

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I don't think there is a single person in this thread who has said that you should absolutely 100% stay out of the house. There are those who have said it might be best to wait for LE but if going in is what you absolutely must do then by all means, DO IT!

However, again, not calling 911 before you enter is just plain foolish, in my opinion. You are putting your entire family's safety on the bet that you are successful in your efforts.

Here's a scenario for you... you rush in. You have no training in room clearing. You get to the bedroom door and while you're trying to break it in, the bad guy takes some shots through said door and you are killed or you overlook a room where a second bad guy is and while you're tunnel visioned on the bedroom door he walks up behind you and shoots you point blank in the back of your skull. And because you didn't call 911 there is no one else coming for your family. If your wife or child is wounded they have no medical aide coming.

It's been said time and time again.. just calling 911 does not mean you cannot go in the house. There is no magical force field that drops down over your door the moment you dial those numbers.

"911, what is your emergency?"
"I live at xyz, abc. I just came home from work and found my door broken in. I think there is someone in the house with my wife and two kids. I am a white male wearing a red polo shirt and jeans. I'm armed and I'm going in to look for them." CLICK! You walk in the door.

That takes less than 20 seconds and those 20 seconds could save your live and the life of your family... ESPECIALLY if you get wounded or killed through your efforts.

No, LEOs might not know what your family looks like but you can tell them can't you? If you tell an LEO that your blonde 5'4" wife, 3 month old daughter and 3 year old son are in the house and no one else and they come across a 6' tall male, it doesn't take a scientist to figure out that this MIGHT NOT be one of the family members.

And let's say you go in and find out it was no break in at all. Your wife tells you she locked her keys in the house and thought she could jimmy the door but broke it instead.

Call 911 again. "Yeah, I just called. I live at xyz, abc. Yeah, everything is okay. Turns out it was an accident. Everyone is okay. Sorry for the trouble."

It cost you nothing. Failing to call however could literally cost you everything.

Here's another scenario. You don't call. You are successful. You happen to get into the room and shoot the bad guy. He drops your child. But you realize that your wife has been stabbed. She's bleeding badly. It took you four minutes to clear your house (and I'm being very generous here) and that could have been four minutes that an ambulance was on its way. By the time you call 911, the ambulance is dispatched, the crew actually climbs in the ambulance and gets going (if they aren't already staged somewhere).. you are looking at another 4 minutes before the ambulance even begins to head your direction. If you live 20 minutes from the nearest hospital. You delayed medical attention for your wounded wife.... why? Because you didn't want an LEO in your house? Even though that is completely irrelevant to the situation because nowhere does anyone say you can't go in anyway.

As a spouse bleeding out on the bedroom floor I'd be FAR more pissed that you didn't call 911 and get me medical attention ASAP than I would be if you decided you were going to wait for them to arrive while sitting down in the driveway because at least you called them in the first place.

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But there's not a chance in hell that if I thought a BG had my wife and kids in my house and was possibly assaulting or killing them would I stand down on the driveway twiddling my thumbs waiting for someone to come and check it out.

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And that's fine for you but there are people here who have carefully evaluated their skills and say, "You know what? I don't think I could do it. I don't have the skills and I might get someone killed. Until I get that training I'm going to wait for LEOs no matter how much it kills me."

I don't think these people should be made to feel like their love for their family is cheap or that it threatens their commitment to their families like you did with this statement...

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... and if that really is your plan, I'd suggest you not tell your wives. She'll likely tell you that if you aren't going to use your guns to protect your own family in your own home, you don't need to be spending any more money on firearms ... or she'll take one of your guns and give it to the first man she finds that will.

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That statement really is ludicrous and so full of bravado.

Again, NO ONE IS SAYING YOU CANNOT GO IN. But if you choose not to because you don't feel you have the skills to do what is required, you should not feel you are less of a man (or woman) because you chose to do something different and wait for backup. At least you have someone coming rather than going in and betting it all on a chance that you MIGHT be successful. Of the two I find the latter to be FAR more irresponsible. If I chose to go in I'd certainly want someone coming in case I fail.

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Originally Posted by Bill MO

Scott, most CCer's can be found in the blog:

Handguns: the American Talisman? | Shooting Wire

"It’s true that a handgun doesn’t look like your Fairy Godmother’s Magic Wand or a rabbit’s foot. The answer to the question “Which one of these doesn’t belong?” is fairly obvious. Despite that, most gunowners don’t spend the amount of time training and practicing with their handguns that we of the ‘cognoscenti’ would like them to.

Still, every year hundreds of thousands of people, who have had no training whatsoever and who seldom practice, successfully defend themselves with firearms, often small ones, from villains intending them harm. Accordingly the statement: “But you need to actually train with said gun and practice often if you expect to save your life with it one day” isn’t necessarily true. In fact, there’s not much real evidence to back up that kind of statement at all............


So when they find themselves in a situation that needs training to get out of they stand there with the thumb up their *** waiting for 911 to get them out of the mess, just like those who don't carry in the first place. Most think the sight of a gun will make the BG run screaming for mommie.

OK, off my rant!!!....... but guys it's time to go back to yesteryears and grow a pair. Be a man! Yes you can take care of the problem, you don't have to wait for someone else get hold your hand.

Yes I'm done!

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I believe in everyone getting as much training as absolutely possible.

However, I can see someone making the point that about 90% of what you need to learn to defend yourself with a firearm in 90% of the most likely scenarios was learned by shooting water pistols, nerf guns, etc. throughout a normal childhood. Even the 10's of thousands of times we've pointed our finger at something has made our natural pointing pretty accurate. Just try pointing at a doorknob across the room, then follow your finger like you're looking at the sights of a handgun. Even a quick point without really thinking about accuracy is surprisingly accurate.

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Originally Posted by CPanther95

If someone that saw evidence of a break-in and thought there was even a chance their wife, or child, was in the house says that they wouldn't immediately go into the house. I'd wager they are single/divorced, and never had children.

I'll call 911 after the fact because I don't want anyone, LEO included, walking around my house with guns drawn when my kids/wife might be in the house. They don't know what my family members look like, and if something had happened, there's a good chance one of them could be armed. And what if the "break in" wasn't really a break in at all? I want to be the one that makes the call or takes the shot (or not) when it comes to my family - especially in my own home. If LE was willing to stay back and let me take point, I wouldn't mind that, but I doubt they would take too kindly to that.

But there's not a chance in hell that if I thought a BG had my wife and kids in my house and was possibly assaulting or killing them would I stand down on the driveway twiddling my thumbs waiting for someone to come and check it out.

... and if that really is your plan, I'd suggest you not tell your wives. She'll likely tell you that if you aren't going to use your guns to protect your own family in your own home, you don't need to be spending any more money on firearms ... or she'll take one of your guns and give it to the first man she finds that will.

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Originally Posted by RKM

I don't have children. I only voted the "reason with him" because if I come home from work, all I have is a j-frame. I'm not exceptionally accurate with my j-frame. I can hit the target and make maybe 5-6" group at 7 yards.... but making a headshot when my child is in very close proximity is not worth the risk. If I had time to grab my AR, I hold 1.5" over target.... dude's dead.

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6" groups at 7 yards is not that good. Either you need a better pistol or you need more practice with yours.

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Originally Posted by limatunes

However, again, not calling 911 before you enter is just plain foolish, in my opinion. You are putting your entire family's safety on the bet that you are successful in your efforts.

Here's a scenario for you... you rush in. You have no training in room clearing. You get to the bedroom door and while you're trying to break it in, the bad guy takes some shots through said door and you are killed or you overlook a room where a second bad guy is and while you're tunnel visioned on the bedroom door he walks up behind you and shoots you point blank in the back of your skull. And because you didn't call 911 there is no one else coming for your family. If your wife or child is wounded they have no medical aide coming.

It's been said time and time again.. just calling 911 does not mean you cannot go in the house. There is no magical force field that drops down over your door the moment you dial those numbers.

"911, what is your emergency?"
"I live at xyz, abc. I just came home from work and found my door broken in. I think there is someone in the house with my wife and two kids. I am a white male wearing a red polo shirt and jeans. I'm armed and I'm going in to look for them." CLICK! You walk in the door.

That takes less than 20 seconds and those 20 seconds could save your live and the life of your family... ESPECIALLY if you get wounded or killed through your efforts.

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I don't really have a problem if someone wants to call 911 first, my bigger issue would be waiting for help to come before trying to help my wife or kids. But still, personally, I won't waste those 20 seconds calling anybody on the phone if I reasonably felt my family might be in danger.

Those 20 seconds could just as easily cost the lives of my family.

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Originally Posted by limatunes

No, LEOs might not know what your family looks like but you can tell them can't you? If you tell an LEO that your blonde 5'4" wife, 3 month old daughter and 3 year old son are in the house and no one else and they come across a 6' tall male, it doesn't take a scientist to figure out that this MIGHT NOT be one of the family members.

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So now, not only are you waiting for law enforcement to arrive, you are going to take the time to describe your family members in enough detail that you feel comfortable that a LEO won't accidentally shoot a family member - even one that might be armed? Plus, you've established an extremely specific set of criteria (5'4" wife, 3 year old, 3 mo. old - and a 6' tall perp) that you couldn't possibly know ahead of time and then tried to imply that any LEO could distinguish GG from BG with the most basic description. BTW, my son happens to be 6' tall, and even short people can commit crimes.

So I'm not willing to risk someone other than myself shooting at people in my house, at least until I have my family safely out of there - even if law enforcement comes equipped with a tape measure.

... and we haven't even touched on the tactical disadvantage someone has that doesn't intimately know the layout of the house.

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Originally Posted by Harryball

RKM, dont take this the wrong way, but if all you have is your J-frame and you feel its not effective enough for this situation, maybe you should consider a better weapons system.

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It's what I'm constricted to carrying at work. I work as an automotive technician. My employer has a policy against carry. I can't carry my preferred firearms at work, and I'm not happy about it :frown: But I'd rather carry my J-frame then NOT carry my G30 or G19. My J-frame is my "better than nothing" option. And unfortunately, that's 5 days a week. I only carry my J-frame at work. Any other time it's a Glock. I only responded this way because the thread title says "you come home from work..." Otherwise, I'm very accurate with a Glock, and wouldn't hesitate to take a shot.