Scenario: You come home from work & ........

This is a discussion on Scenario: You come home from work & ........ within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by RubenZ 6" groups at 7 yards is not that good. Either you need a better pistol or you need more practice with ...

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  • Tell the guy to drop it or die

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  • Shoot him in the head & call the police

    80 63.49%
  • Let him escape with your child & call the police

    0 0%
  • Try to reason with him & tell him that his only way out is to let your child go.

    38 30.16%
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Thread: Scenario: You come home from work & ........

  1. #121
    RKM
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubenZ View Post
    6" groups at 7 yards is not that good. Either you need a better pistol or you need more practice with yours.
    I agree. That's why I'd choose not to make the shot with my J-frame. It's my only choice for carry at work. I shoot my Glock's and M&P just fine.

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  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post
    I don't really have a problem if someone wants to call 911 first, my bigger issue would be waiting for help to come before trying to help my wife or kids. But still, personally, I won't waste those 20 seconds calling anybody on the phone if I reasonably felt my family might be in danger.

    Those 20 seconds could just as easily cost the lives of my family.
    If you really think getting help on the way early is a threat to your family's life then by all means... don't call. That's your priority. I think it's a foolish risk to take but that's just me.

    So now, not only are you waiting for law enforcement to arrive, you are going to take the time to describe your family members in enough detail that you feel comfortable that a LEO won't accidentally shoot a family member - even one that might be armed? Plus, you've established an extremely specific set of criteria (5'4" wife, 3 year old, 3 mo. old - and a 6' tall perp) that you couldn't possibly know ahead of time and then tried to imply that any LEO could distinguish GG from BG with the most basic description. BTW, my son happens to be 6' tall, and even short people can commit crimes.

    So I'm not willing to risk someone other than myself shooting at people in my house, at least until I have my family safely out of there - even if law enforcement comes equipped with a tape measure.

    ... and we haven't even touched on the tactical disadvantage someone has that doesn't intimately know the layout of the house.
    And now you're just being argumentative. It was a general example. And of course I wouldn't know what the bad guy looked like.

    If I chose to wait outside for LEOs to arrive I have nothing else to do but talk my little head off to dispatch about everything I think they need to know.. ESPECIALLY the description of my family members. I most certainly would not be just sitting there twittling my thumbs. There's SO much that you can be doing to help the scenario if you choose to stay outside.

    You could even pull up a photo on your phone or out of your wallet or whatever. Who doesn't have pictures of their kids and spouses on their phones these days? And if you don't, oh well. As I said, you could certainly give their descriptions to dispatch while waiting for them to arrive so that you aren't wasting any time when they arrive.

    Yes, short people can be bad guys, too. But I hope you got my point that if you describe to responding officers that there are x number of people of said sex and brief description who SHOULD be there and he comes across an individual who does not fit the descriptions given of the individuals who are supposed to be there then that means this person is likely on the suspect list.

    Once again, you're making it sound like there are only 2 options at the onset of this scenario. Call 911 and wait or go in and do not call 911. There is so much in between.

    Call 911, give a brief description of yourself, hang up and go in.

    Call 911, put them on speaker phone, put the phone in your pocket, go in while describing what you see while you go in. Got a bluetooth headset? Go that route. If you feel it's too much of a distraction, hang up on them.

    And here's another one.... you call 911 and tell them you live at xyz, abc and that the door is broken in and they say, "Yes, sir. We got a call from that address. Your wife says she got out and is waiting at her neighbors house but that there are three armed individuals in the house."

    Oh, wait... you don't know that because you didn't even bother calling and now you are rushing into a home with armed invaders that your family isn't even in. OOPS


    And, okay, your wife is armed. The LEO comes across her throughout his search. Why would he shoot her? Has she threatened him? Is she complying with his commands to put the gun down? If she's being reasonable and responsive to him there is no reason why she should get shot.. or anyone else in that house for that matter.

    If she has a gun and is okay, why hasn't she tried to communicate that in some way to you on the outside or to law enforcement? If she's barricaded herself in a room with the kids and her gun she would be waiting for LEOs wouldn't she? She should know what to do when one comes through the house right?

    So, she's safe. She's barricaded herself in a room and she's waiting for the cavalry. You go rushing in the back door because you don't even want to take 20 seconds to call 911 much less take an additional 60 seconds to glean more information. Now she's got the kids repelling out a window in the front of the house. She's now out of the house and you get shot looking for her because you couldn't take a few minutes to think before rushing.

    The saying, "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast" comes to mind here.

    There's another saying.. "Never be in a hurry to get yourself dead." To me it sounds like there are a LOT of people on this forum who are just ITCHING to be the hero and run in and are in a HUGE hurry to get themselves or someone they love killed.. and with no help on the way either. That just doesn't make ANY sense to me whatsoever. None.

    Oh well. I hope it works all works out okay should something like this actually occur (God forbid). The fact that it is exceptionally unlikely is a comfort. But these threads are to help us think tactically and apply the lessons to other scenarios as well.

    It amazes me that people are vilifying using reason and thought and exchanging it for emotional responses that lead to rushed actions that can be dangerous for all involved.

    If you think you don't have 20 - 60 seconds to think a little bit, get help on the way and gain a little extra intel and be cautious in your approach then it probably won't matter anyway. That is the stark reality.

  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKM View Post
    It's what I'm constricted to carrying at work. I work as an automotive technician. My employer has a policy against carry. I can't carry my preferred firearms at work, and I'm not happy about it But I'd rather carry my J-frame then NOT carry my G30 or G19. My J-frame is my "better than nothing" option. And unfortunately, that's 5 days a week. I only carry my J-frame at work. Any other time it's a Glock. I only responded this way because the thread title says "you come home from work..." Otherwise, I'm very accurate with a Glock, and wouldn't hesitate to take a shot.
    I'm restricted from carrying at work as well, and I don't.

    But I still keep my RDS-mounted Glock in my vehicle for the ride to-and-from work. I 'gear up' when I leave for home.

    Consider buying one of the lock boxes and take a better gun with you.

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post
    If someone that saw evidence of a break-in and thought there was even a chance their wife, or child, was in the house says that they wouldn't immediately go into the house. I'd wager they are single/divorced, and never had children.

    I'll call 911 after the fact because I don't want anyone, LEO included, walking around my house with guns drawn when my kids/wife might be in the house. They don't know what my family members look like, and if something had happened, there's a good chance one of them could be armed. And what if the "break in" wasn't really a break in at all? I want to be the one that makes the call or takes the shot (or not) when it comes to my family - especially in my own home. If LE was willing to stay back and let me take point, I wouldn't mind that, but I doubt they would take too kindly to that.

    But there's not a chance in hell that if I thought a BG had my wife and kids in my house and was possibly assaulting or killing them would I stand down on the driveway twiddling my thumbs waiting for someone to come and check it out.

    ... and if that really is your plan, I'd suggest you not tell your wives. She'll likely tell you that if you aren't going to use your guns to protect your own family in your own home, you don't need to be spending any more money on firearms ... or she'll take one of your guns and give it to the first man she finds that will.
    FWIW, I let my wife read this thread.

    She agrees 100% with the above quote.

    She would expect me to take action in the OP scenario.

  6. #125
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    We'll have to agree to disagree. Some scenarios you post, like 3 armed individuals waiting around in my house after my family got away from them, are so remote that I wouldn't factor them in my decision making process. I'd have to go with my gut.

    Maybe it's a flaw, but I'd rather be in control with greater risk to myself than potentially living with the fact that my inaction caused harm, or death, to a family member.

  7. #126
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    Bedroom door swings open... Evaluate the situation... 2 to the head, 2 to the chest. Call the police!

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post
    We'll have to agree to disagree. Some scenarios you post, like 3 armed individuals waiting around in my house after my family got away from them, are so remote that I wouldn't factor them in my decision making process. I'd have to go with my gut.
    Truth be told, this whole scenario is also extremely remote, but the way people think about scenarios like this reflects on how they will think about other scenarios as well that are far more likely.

    And anyone can do whatever he or she wants or feels is appropriate. My only pause from a forum standpoint is that new people who come here can see posts advocating things that are not fully thought through, think they are the correct course of action and get themselves in trouble. I'm just hoping to put out ALL of the options, not just just the one or two that people do or do not like.

    Maybe it's a flaw, but I'd rather be in control with greater risk to myself than potentially living with the fact that my inaction caused harm, or death, to a family member.
    Again, you assume that everything short of rushing in is inaction. I don't know why that is. Calling 911 is action. Walking around the house to gather more information is action. Looking through the windows to see if you can find out where people are located is action. Calling your wife's cell phone is action. Sticking your head in the door and calling for your wife is action. Looking around for clues to number of people in the house, where they are, if their armed or not, the intent... all of these things are actions are they not?

    I'm 100% for action. Yes, ACT! But do it in a productive manner that has the best chances of everyone coming out alive and in one piece.

    Everyone keeps dogging the "what if you go in and get hurt" question. Not a single person has said addressed how they think the scenario would go if they rushed in and got injured or killed and hadn't called 911. I'm still waiting for someone to address that one.

  9. #128
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    Not a single person has said addressed how they think the scenario would go if they rushed in and got injured or killed and hadn't called 911. I'm still waiting for someone to address that one.
    Limatunes, in light of the posts I've read from you on this thread, I'd change my sig line if I were you
    Even death is a poor excuse for not fighting back.

  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    Limatunes, in light of the posts I've read from you on this thread, I'd change my sig line if I were you
    Where did I say that you can't go in? Where did I say that you shouldn't fight to the death for your family? Where did I say that someone absolutely must sit outside and wait?

    All I've advocated through this entire thread is thinking things through, getting help on the way and being smart about whatever choices you do make in addition to training for things like hostage shots and room clearing.

    Yes, even death is a poor excuse for not fighting back but I prefer to fight smarter than my opponent and not rush to my death when a little forethought and action can better my chances of success. And in the event of my death through fighting, I prefer to have someone else en route to give my family more of a chance.

    Tell me where I'm wrong.

  11. #130
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    I said I would call 911 and go in.

    Everyone keeps dogging the "what if you go in and get hurt" question. Not a single person has said addressed how they think the scenario would go if they rushed in and got injured or killed and hadn't called 911. I'm still waiting for someone to address that one.
    I would seem to me, that the above is the price of doing business. If as describe by the OP, after breaching the door, if I was hurt I would continue the fight, If Im dead, the family knows that I tried and yes the PD is on the way. However, Im not worried about be hurt, I expect that to happen. My violence will be greater.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  12. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    I said I would call 911 and go in.

    I would seem to me, that the above is the price of doing business. If as describe by the OP, after breaching the door, if I was hurt I would continue the fight, If Im dead, the family knows that I tried and yes the PD is on the way. However, Im not worried about be hurt, I expect that to happen. My violence will be greater.
    My thoughts exactly!

  13. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Again, you assume that everything short of rushing in is inaction. I don't know why that is. Calling 911 is action. Walking around the house to gather more information is action. Looking through the windows to see if you can find out where people are located is action. Calling your wife's cell phone is action. Sticking your head in the door and calling for your wife is action. Looking around for clues to number of people in the house, where they are, if their armed or not, the intent... all of these things are actions are they not?
    Jumping Jacks are action too, are they not?

    If a BG has my family with a knife to their throat, or a gun to their head, seconds can mean the difference between life and death. Your list has gone from a quick call to 911, to an entire laundry list of "actions" that encompass everything short of playing ice cream truck music hoping to draw out the BG from the house.



    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Everyone keeps dogging the "what if you go in and get hurt" question. Not a single person has said addressed how they think the scenario would go if they rushed in and got injured or killed and hadn't called 911. I'm still waiting for someone to address that one.
    Nobody is dodging the question, you just aren't liking the answers you're hearing.

    Your focus is on what if "you get hurt". My focus is what if my family gets hurt. I'll take those 20 seconds and use them to get to my family as quickly as possible. You wouldn't. That's your choice. By the time you account for every possible scenario, your family could die of old age before you get in the house and find out what's going on.

    Sometimes when someone is hanging from a ledge, the best course of action is to simply reach out and grab hold of them - not start making a parachute.

  14. #133
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    1: In the scenario no one knows as you arrive home exactly what is going on.
    2: Rushing into a situation without first thinking about different possibilities is foolhardy. And yes, I would want to rush right in like everyone else. But just like if you see a person down and unconscious you DO NOT go to the victim and do the ABC's. You first assess the situation to see if there is another danger. Dialing 911 and saying EMERGENCEY or what ever does not take but a few seconds and IMO very well worth the time.
    3: In the scenario you knock on the door and call out thus eliminating any surprise. That is probably why the BG has your daughter at gun point. Did it occur to anyone that the BG most likely did not have his gun pointing at your daughters head until he heard you?
    4: No one, I repeat no one has said to stay there for an hour figuring out the possibilities. But, you must be foucused with the most likely and the idea of you dying in an attemtp to rescue your family would be really bad since no no one is on the way to help.

  15. #134
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    This thread has come far away from what was stated in the OP:

    "This is the scenario, right before leaving work, you put your carry piece on, you arrive home to find that even though the door is closed, there are obvious signs that the door was forced open. You draw expecting trouble & everything is silent. When you get to the bedroom, the door is closed & locked. After knocking, or calling out loud to see if everything is alright, there is still no sound except for a low whimper. You force the door & find your wife & child(dren) held hostage in the room by a home invader. He has your youngest child at gun point specifically pointing at there head. What do you do?"
    You have what you carry. You didn't call 911, you enter with drawn gun. You find bedroom door locked and knock, hear a whimper. You force door open and are now faced with your child being held with gun to their head. And the question asked was "what do you do now?" at this point. Not what you should have, could have or would have liked to have done.

    For those who want to call 911 now or search the house it's your kid but don't except me to do the same.

    You take the shot at the first good opportunity you get, with as little time as possible for your child to feel threatened by the BG. If you can't do that with what you carry then why do you carry? I carry to protect me and mine. If you carry for the same reason but can't stop the threat then you have failed. Carry something that you can make hits with, get training and practice so you can. The small pocket gun is easy to hide and comfortable to carry but in a case like this you may as well not have anything. Because no can save your child with what you got.
    Mike1956 and tcox4freedom like this.
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  16. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post
    Jumping Jacks are action too, are they not?
    Yes. They are, although not very productive... hence my statement in post #127

    "I'm 100% for action. Yes, ACT! But do it in a productive manner that has the best chances of everyone coming out alive and in one piece."

    Nobody is dodging the question, you just aren't liking the answers you're hearing.
    I've read all of the responses. Perhaps I missed it. Could you provides some quotes?

    Your focus is on what if "you get hurt". My focus is what if my family gets hurt. I'll take those 20 seconds and use them to get to my family as quickly as possible. You wouldn't. That's your choice. By the time you account for every possible scenario, your family could die of old age before you get in the house and find out what's going on.

    Sometimes when someone is hanging from a ledge, the best course of action is to simply reach out and grab hold of them - not start making a parachute.
    I like that quote. I'll have to use it sometime.

    I'm not disagreeing with you that time is sensitive. Not at all. But there has to be a balance between the sensitivity of time and precise action that increases your chances of successfully saving your family. No, one doesn't have to run every scenario but it would be absolutely absurd of someone to rush in without considering a few limited possibilities to the current situation.

    1) Has a crime been committed or being committed?
    2) Is help on the way?
    3) Is my family still on the premiss and/or in danger?
    4) How can I best help them?

    And no, my focus is not on "what if I get hurt." I could care less if I am hurt. My focus is on the safety of my family. However, I cannot risk rushing in without being sure that backup is coming because if I fail it means that NO ONE is coming for my family and we are found three days later when my husband's employer calls 911 to report that he hasn't been to work in three days. THAT is my issue.

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