A comment from Col. Grossman on the targeting of victims - Page 2

A comment from Col. Grossman on the targeting of victims

This is a discussion on A comment from Col. Grossman on the targeting of victims within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; He's not the first to say this or quote the research but still very true!...

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    He's not the first to say this or quote the research but still very true!
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

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  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Although I agree with this and I take SA very seriously, I'm not sure I want to live my life at that his level of SA 24/7! I'm not a cop, sheep dog, or combat soldier.
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

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  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    Although I agree with this and I take SA very seriously, I'm not sure I want to live my life at that his level of SA 24/7! I'm not a cop, sheep dog, or combat soldier.
    I don't think he is saying for you to be SA with a thought process of thinking it all the time. But rather that it needs to be who you are, head up, eyes looking and knowing.

    If you have to think about SA you will not have it when you need it.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    Although I agree with this and I take SA very seriously, I'm not sure I want to live my life at that his level of SA 24/7! I'm not a cop, sheep dog, or combat soldier.
    Its a warrior mindset that he is talking about. That not only applies to cops, and the military, but also to you, the armed citizen.

    Warriors do not just happen: They are built; they are crafted; they are nurtured every day. Common among so many of them is their ability to suck up gunshot wounds and drive on to accomplish their mission. Read the Medal of Honor citations, and you find that the one commonality in almost all of them is that though the recipients were physically damaged, they drove on. They drove on.Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, On Combat ..
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    I understand what he's saying and I think he's right but there's something about him that is a bit off. He comes off like a nut job to me. SA and street smarts come natural to me. But....... His level of SA and mindset is a bit over the top for me. JMHO!
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

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  6. #21
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    Long ago I learned to adopt a go-ahead-and-try-but-you're-going-to-get-hurt attitude when I ran bad neighborhoods. Lord, I was crazy, but it was an education.

  7. #22
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    There's a term in fishing that applies, "If it looks like bait, it will be eaten."
    troutkiller likes this.
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  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    I understand what he's saying and I think he's right but there's something about him that is a bit off. He comes off like a nut job to me. SA and street smarts come natural to me. But....... His level of SA and mindset is a bit over the top for me. JMHO!
    I can see were you would formulate that opinion, and there is nothing wrong with that. It is a choice, and a choice that everyone doesnt have to make. For some of us we adhere to this type of mindset and continue to train that way. Its offered, but sometimes not accepted.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    I understand what he's saying and I think he's right but there's something about him that is a bit off. He comes off like a nut job to me. SA and street smarts come natural to me. But....... His level of SA and mindset is a bit over the top for me. JMHO!
    He's speaking of the warrior mindset. It's a mindset that's certainly a cut above the rest, so to speak. Where he's coming from is the place where combat tactics reign supreme, from the perspective of keeping a person alive in such a boiling cauldron. It's certainly not for everyone, but the lessons from such thinking have great utility, given how much violence exists around us ... and it applies well beyond the battlefield.

    If you really want to blow your mind, read the books On Killing, On Combat and Warrior Mindset sometime.

    Keep in mind that his lessons and training is basically aimed at military, law enforcement.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  10. #25
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    Had not given much thought about this. I try to maintain SA, but the "signals" one sends out may be just as important. Thanks for the info.

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    I agree with the mindset and yes you should always be aware of what is going on around you. However some BG's don't give a fudge about your SA, you're a target period.
    They don't care about anything but taking from you. You can nod, walk like you own the street, or you're the biggest badass in town. They will still target you. Good thing (you) we carry.In a way you have to not give a crap about them either.If they approach you it's not to talk about the weather and you should be ready to react accordingly.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    Although I agree with this and I take SA very seriously, I'm not sure I want to live my life at that his level of SA 24/7! I'm not a cop, sheep dog, or combat soldier.
    Do you ignore SA when stepping out into a street because you are not a traffic cop or do you watch out for possible traffic dangers before crossing the street? How is being aware of your surroundings in regard to other people any different than watching out for oncoming traffic?

    Michael

  13. #28
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    Eric as others have pointed out Grossman's original studies and commentary were directed at military members and have been adapted over time to include the civilian population. It is great that you have "street smarts" and it comes naturally but many do not have them and it must be a learned behavior.

    You do not have to live at a heightened state of awareness 24/7 in everyday life you have to have time to decompress. Here it is the gym, headphones on, music going, cypher lock on the door, handgun hanging on the eliptical. Is it totally safe? Nope but it is a close a we can get here.

    I agree with the mindset and yes you should always be aware of what is going on around you. However some BG's don't give a fudge about your SA, you're a target period.

    Yes you are correct some BG's do not care but remember there are different levels of bad guys. If the way you carry yourself prevents the guy who thinks he is a bad from attacking you then you have accomplished what you have intended. That leaves the determined criminal who as you stated does not care. They do not care if you do not look like a victim, are carrying a weapon, or anything else they want what you have, he is the one you have to train and prepare for.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Eric as others have pointed out Grossman's original studies and commentary were directed at military members and have been adapted over time to include the civilian population. It is great that you have "street smarts" and it comes naturally but many do not have them and it must be a learned behavior.

    You do not have to live at a heightened state of awareness 24/7 in everyday life you have to have time to decompress. Here it is the gym, headphones on, music going, cypher lock on the door, handgun hanging on the eliptical. Is it totally safe? Nope but it is a close a we can get here.

    I agree with the mindset and yes you should always be aware of what is going on around you. However some BG's don't give a fudge about your SA, you're a target period.

    Yes you are correct some BG's do not care but remember there are different levels of bad guys. If the way you carry yourself prevents the guy who thinks he is a bad from attacking you then you have accomplished what you have intended. That leaves the determined criminal who as you stated does not care. They do not care if you do not look like a victim, are carrying a weapon, or anything else they want what you have, he is the one you have to train and prepare for.
    Agreed! My SA is good but not that of a warrior.
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

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  15. #30
    Distinguished Member Array Arborigine's Avatar
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    While not looking victim-like is usually good advice, I have to wonder if the opposite is also true at times. Example, the Carson City IHOP shotings. The perp, after shooting a random guy outside, went in and first shot the five uniformed National Guardsmen who were seated at the back before shooting 5 more people. It appears that he took out who appeared to be the worst threat first. Outside of totally insane behavior, it may be possible that in a group holdup/hostage situation, the least cowed may be the most watched, or first target. If that is so, it may be better to act the coward, gaining time or the perp's inattention to draw discreetly or remain uninvolved as the situation dictates.
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