Wife just saw the business end of my neighbor's shotgun. LEOs inbound.

This is a discussion on Wife just saw the business end of my neighbor's shotgun. LEOs inbound. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Which also states: VII. DEFENSE OF PROPERTY A. A person has NO RIGHT TO USE DEADLY FORCE sol ely to defend his property . This ...

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  1. #61
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Which also states:


    VII. DEFENSE OF PROPERTY

    A. A person has NO RIGHT TO USE DEADLY FORCE solely to defend his property. This applies where you
    are only defending your property and NOT defending yourself or your family. (example, you CANNOT shoot
    someone in the back while they are running across your yard with your TV)

    B. A person has NO RIGHT TO THREATEN THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE solely to defend his property.
    (This is a recent change in the law). (Example, you CANNOT brandish a firearm to run someone off who is
    breaking into your unoccupied car in a parking lot)
    Did he solely use force to defend his property....NO... did he use force to defend himself......yes.
    Did he get arrested .no.why because he was within his rights.
    Any way you cut the pie; its still pie
    OldVet likes this.

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  3. #62
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    Quote the statute and relevant case law for his state. Wikipedia is not a valid source.
    Wikipedia is a wonderful thing, you can instantly be incompetent in any area of expertise.
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  4. #63
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    Did he solely use force to defend his property....NO... did he use force to defend himself......yes.
    Did he get arrested .no.why because he was within his rights.
    Any way you cut the pie; its still pie
    Nice try. He was within the safety of his home. Before coming out he grabbed a gun (it is more than likely fair to say he knew it was a dog whou was not breaking into the home he was visiting).

    And yes any way you cut the humble pie you should eat it.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    Did he solely use force to defend his property....NO... did he use force to defend himself......yes.
    Did he get arrested ….no….why … because he was within his rights.
    Any way you cut the pie; it’s still pie

    He needs to be able to clearly articulate why he needed to defend himself. That's going to be a hard sell telling a jury that from the safety of the house he witnessed the dog, so he grabbed his shotgun and went outside to confront it.
    "I got a lot of problems with you people!" - Frank Costanza

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    Did he solely use force to defend his property....NO... did he use force to defend himself......yes.
    Did he get arrested ….no….why … because he was within his rights.
    Any way you cut the pie; it’s still pie
    Defend himself? Or Involve himself! Uh, yes! As for arrest, perhaps this saga of his isn't over yet.
    Careful about that pie; it may be stuffed with crow. Methinks one may have sat on the barstool too long.
    barstoolguru likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
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  7. #66
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastk9dad View Post
    He needs to be able to clearly articulate why he needed to defend himself. That's going to be a hard sell telling a jury that from the safety of the house he witnessed the dog, so he grabbed his shotgun and went outside to confront it.
    it will go something like this : I heard a noise and didn't know what it was; sound like someone was breaking into my house. I was in fear for my life not knowing what was happening so I grabbed my gun and went outside to investigate the source and was confronted by a loose (unlawful) unrestrained dog and defended myself. A lady ran up and got in between me and the dog. I keep the gun on them until I felt safe and in the heat of the moment I might have said something I shouldn't have but I was scared and the dog was barking.

    Not guilty by reason of self defense

  8. #67
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    Go for it with that story.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  9. #68
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Defend himself? Or Involve himself! Uh, yes! As for arrest, perhaps this saga of his isn't over yet.
    Careful about that pie; it may be stuffed with crow. Methinks one may have sat on the barstool too long.

    see this is where you are wrong; it's peach pie(as in everything is peachy) and we cut it into 6 pieces instead of 8 so you get a” big ol’ piece”

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    Wikipedia is a wonderful thing, you can instantly be incompetent in any area of expertise.
    a lot of wiki articles site sources at the bottom of the page now. it is not as bad as it used to be.
    W9HDG likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    it will go something like this : I heard a noise and didn't know what it was; sound like someone was breaking into my house. I was in fear for my life not knowing what was happening so I grabbed my gun and went outside to investigate the source and was confronted by a loose (unlawful) unrestrained dog and defended myself. A lady ran up and got in between me and the dog. I keep the gun on them until I felt safe and in the heat of the moment I might have said something I shouldn't have but I was scared and the dog was barking.

    Not guilty by reason of self defense

    Questions from the prosecuting attorney... How can you be in fear for your life when you really weren't even sure of what was happening? Why didn't you seek cover in your house and call the police? Why didn't you call police at any point during this encounter.

    By you grabbing a gun and going outside, they are going to paint you as the agressor. Most would say the reasonable thing someone would do is peek out the windows to see what the noise was - even arm yourself, take cover inside call the police, not grab a shotgun and go "hunting" for trouble.
    Last edited by fastk9dad; September 4th, 2012 at 07:25 AM.
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  12. #71
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastk9dad View Post
    Questions from the defense attorney... How can you be in fear for your life when you really weren't even sure of what was happening? Why didn't you seek cover in your house and call the police? Why didn't you call police at any point during this encounter.

    By you grabbing a gun and going outside, they are going to paint you as the agressor. Most would say the reasonable thing someone would do is peek out the windows to see what the noise was - even arm yourself, take cover inside call the police, not grab a shotgun and go "hunting" for trouble.
    Bingo.

    Barstoolguru: There is no reason given the law in Virginia to "investigate" by going from the relatively safety of one's home to confront a potential assailant. Dial 911 and wait inside of your home if you live in Virginia. As I said before, this is one of those areas where you are injecting what you believe the law ought to be versus what the law actually is. Your bar tab is cut off. You must now pay for your drinks when oordering them.

  13. #72
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fausty View Post
    a lot of wiki articles site sources at the bottom of the page now. it is not as bad as it used to be.
    Wikipedia is only as good as the person who uses it. Citing a source and the source actually being correct (let alone the interpretation of the source being correct) are two entirely different things. But we digress...

  14. #73
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    Bingo.

    Barstoolguru: There is no reason given the law in Virginia to "investigate" by going from the relatively safety of one's home to confront a potential assailant. Dial 911 and wait inside of your home if you live in Virginia. As I said before, this is one of those areas where you are injecting what you believe the law ought to be versus what the law actually is. Your bar tab is cut off. You must now pay for your drinks when oordering them.
    Show me what law says that a person can't investigate what they might believe is something illegal going on their property and that they are required to call police. in another thread we have already established that the cops have no duty to "protect you". Why should someone barricade themselves in their house every time they hear something and call the cops (which can take thirty minutes and it one case 9 hours to get their)
    The mall called; your late for your shift

  15. #74
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    Show me what law says that a person can't investigate what they might believe is something illegal going on their property and that they are required to call police. in another thread we have already established that the cops have no duty to "protect you". Why should someone barricade themselves in their house every time they hear something and call the cops (which can take thirty minutes and it one case 9 hours to get their)
    The mall called; your late for your shift
    You absolutely can investigate. Just don't expect protection under stand your ground in Virginia and that has been demonstrated to you (outside of Wikipedia) time and again in this very thread.

  16. #75
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    Maybe in other states it is different (I'm sure it is), but in Florida, having a weapon in your hands definitely does qualify (by FS legal definition) as deadly force.

    Not just using it, but even threatening or acting in a menacing way while brandishing a firearm is deadly force.

    I believe that was a product of the whole "use an gun and you're done" thing.
    As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you. -- Jeff Cooper

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