BG at window, shoot or not.
This is a discussion on BG at window, shoot or not. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This just accured to me on my way home about 30min. ago. With the weather changing, mid to low 70's at night here in mississippi, ...
September 26th, 2006 10:43 PM
BG at window, shoot or not.
This just accured to me on my way home about 30min. ago. With the weather changing, mid to low 70's at night here in mississippi, I tend to drive around with my windows down. I was at a stoplight earlier when i thought,"what would i do if somone were at my window with a knife"?
Here is the situation....
Your at a redlight with your windows down, car in front of you, car behind you. BG runs up to your drivers window from the rear-left of your car. He is holding a knife in an aggressive manner at about window hight demanding your money, car, etc. What would you do?
September 26th, 2006 11:21 PM
Firstly I would not pull up so far as I could not drive around the vehicle in front of me. At the same time I realize there are times when traffic on both sides block you in. Here is my similar experience from FL in 93 while deliverring Pizza.
Ego inflated biker during Daytons'a Bike Week almost plants himself into the front fender because he is doing 70+ in a 45 next to parked cars and is invisible. A couple blocks up we come to a stop and I am blocked in by parked cars on the left and pedestrians on the right. Biker drops his stand and leaves his old lady behind as he comes up to my open window. He is 6' + and I am 5'4". He is significantly larger and has a rather large Buck knife on his belt. His buddies and woman are all watching him. He begins to rage at me through the open window. I admit all fault (although I wasn't) and beg him to not hurt me. I played to his testosterone inflated ego. His hand never goes for the knife nor does it reach through the open window. If either had happenned I would have shot him multiple times with the 10mm I was legally carrying and had in my right hand held low against the car door and out of view. The moron went back to his woman and buddies joking about how he scared some pizza delivery college kid and never knew how close he came.
I consider it a victory in that I did not have to kill the moron and lost nothing.
If you cannot retreat and you are in immediate life threatenning danger you respond as needed.
September 26th, 2006 11:29 PM
+1 Musketeer !!!
Originally Posted by Musketeer
One of the best stories I have read here on the board!!
Jonathancase: I would just fire till the threat is stopped.
Again.... Great Story!!
I wear a seatbelt, but I hope to never need it, I use smoke detectors in my house, but I hope to never need them, I carry life insurance, but I hope to never need it, I carry a weapon, but I hope to never need it.
September 26th, 2006 11:45 PM
I'm impressed. This is something many people must learn to do. I have also 'waved sorry' to the jerk who has cut me off and still insists on yelling and practicing his 'sign language'.
Actually, as with most minor problems (the small stuff) in life...let it go...in a short time...it's forgotten and is no longer part of your life!
You did the right thing, knowing all the time, that you could have defended yourself, had you 'feared for your life'.
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NRA Life Member
September 26th, 2006 11:51 PM
VIP Member (Retired Staff)
Apart from not wanting to be ''locked in'' in my vehicle - knife? Do a ''Musketeer''
Gun? - could well be ''game on".
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
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September 27th, 2006 12:09 AM
Since I drive a Jeep most days, and sometimes I am without my hardtop on, or windows, doors, etc. my first response is to use the vehicle to get away. If he hangs on and gets dragged, that is his problem. If he is still hanging on when I stop to get out and remove him from my door, fender, or whatever he has got more problems.
I guess I see things differently, but how the heck do you not notice a person walking in the middle of the road, as in the town I live in most lights are at intersections with 4 lanes of traffic.
If it is a someone on a motorcycle, they definately have the short end of the stick against any automobile and they realize that. Any thtat I have seen would not go up against an auto.
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas Hunter Education Instructor
September 27th, 2006 05:08 AM
You come at me with a knife you get shot, unless I can drive away...then you get laughed at and reported to Jonny law.
The Problem: When stupid people do stupid things, smart people end up getting killed.
September 27th, 2006 08:33 AM
If threatened with a knife then act accordingly....
if in a car, then perhaps that is the best self defense weapon you have access to at any given moment....
"Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.
"...be water, my friend."
September 27th, 2006 09:29 AM
What a truly excellent response. Great job of actively defusing the situation while being prepared to defend yourself if the BG keeps pressing.
Originally Posted by Musketeer
Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.
September 27th, 2006 11:03 AM
A 3600-lb car at full throttle is a great convincer. No way would I stand idly by with a knife-wielding BG making overt threats to my life. I think he'd have to explore the physics of metal crushing first-hand. Cars in front/rear/side be damned.
BG runs up to your drivers window from the rear-left of your car. He is holding a knife in an aggressive manner at about window hight demanding your money, car, etc. What would you do?
This type of scenario is why I try very hard to be in an outside lane, when driving anywhere. To provide options. And why I go around with my windows up and doors locked. 'Cause you can't check your "six," "eight" and "four" all at once, in a car.
September 27th, 2006 11:25 AM
Laugh my maniacal evil laugh and demand all his money and his weapon, while giving him the you just picked the wrong guy look. If he is still there back it up with action. That wouldn't necessitate the use of a firearm but depending on how it went the gun may come out.
The knife threat is only good from the driver's side of the vehicle. I would most definitely use the door to start the festivities. From there the variables are to many to account for, but basically I would attack with everything. I wouldn't necessarily want to hit the other vehicles trying to escape. To many variables once you involve other people in that way.
Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.
September 27th, 2006 11:26 AM
I really owe my response that day in 93 to another member of this board, Superhouse15. While young and stupid (as opposed to the current older and stupid) college students he turned me on to the writings of Massaad Ayoob. He leant me "The Truth About Self Protection" and guided me to "In the Gravest Extreme." While both may be dated in areas the basic principals of avoidance, evasion, and de-escallation are timeless. Even with the "Stand Your Ground" laws making their way around the nation I would still rather avoid a shooting if possible.
As many have said, use the car if you can. Both my close calls while deliverring pizza (dumbest job I ever had, we were the only one to go into the projects as well...) occurred when my car was blocked, once in traffic (the one I described) and once with a car blocking it into a parking spot (for another day). If it is life or death the rules of the road need not apply! At the same time do not run down innocents or cause a multi car accident with other innocents just to avoid having to shoot a criminal.
One thing to remember though. Even while doing everything possible to de-escalate you need to have two things on hand.
1. The physical ability to resist with lethal force if need be.
2. The personal acceptance that such force may be needed inspite of your placating efforts.
Remembering that you may not be able to talk your way outof it pre-sets your acceptance that you may have to shoot. If you have done everything possible to avoid it you should feel no moral problem at having been forced to do so, and hopefully no hessitation. All you have done is hand the criminal the rope, he hung himself.
September 27th, 2006 11:32 AM
As soon as he sticks his arm though that window or makes like he is, he's fair game if I can't get away.
If I can grab his arm, I just might drive off with it. I have a Cold Steel Culloden mounted on the inside of my sun visor. It's good for making eye kebobs and dressing forearms.
I have manual windows and reaching over to roll the window up would prevent me from using my left arm to defend myself and also leave me wide open for being repeatedly stuck with his knife.
In reality, I drive with doors locked and the windows no lower than 1/4 of the way down. So he can wave his knife all he wants; I'm protected in my metal box. If he breaks the window to get at me, that's another matter.
"Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa
September 27th, 2006 12:31 PM
EXACTLY!!! Pulling up so close to the guy in front of you that you can't crank the wheel and drive away WITHOUT having to back up is just plain STUPID!!!
Originally Posted by Musketeer
And this has nothing to do with tactical defense scenarios. It's just plain common sense. Nonetheless, the majority of drivers nose up so close to the guy in front that they are absolutely and completely stuck if his car stalls for any reason. And if they're on a hill, he has a manual transmission, and he rolls backwards a tiny bit before pulling away, they are probably going to get bumped. DUMB!!!
Come on, you know who you are. Now stop doing that!
Beyond that, if you're in stop-and-go traffic, and you have the far side window rolled down all the way, that's pretty dumb, too.
September 27th, 2006 12:44 PM
I'm with just about everybody's comments. Liked Scott's one, too (thanks, I needed that this morning lol). As far as using your car against someone like that, I'll relate a short story one of my sergeants told me about a call I sent him to...
Got a call about a raving lunatic with a knife, waving it around chasing a woman in the middle of the street. (Believe me, we knew who he was and he was a lunatic.) My sergeant was saying it would just suck for that guy if he was "hastily" turning the corner and out pops the lunatic complete with knife over his front bumper. "Hey, a knife is deadly force, so is using my car to 'control the situation.' heh"
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