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Engaging multiple targets

This is a discussion on Engaging multiple targets within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Just pull a Tom Cruise!...

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  1. #46
    Member Array linuss's Avatar
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    Just pull a Tom Cruise!

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  2. #47
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pir8fan View Post
    There's usually one guy that seems to be the most aggressive (the leader, usually). The idea is to take him out first. Human psychology being what it is, the followers will almost always lose some or all of their enthusiasm. If nothing else, it will buy you a moment or two of indecision/hesitation on their part. That might just be the edge you need.
    This assumes you can discern who the leader is.

    The event may go down so quickly that you really don't have time to do a pysch study of the BG's or learn their chain of command.

  3. #48
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Has anyone else other than Scott ever done a force on force drill with multiple well-armed attackers?
    Everyone who has taken the S.I. 0-5Ft Gunfighting Class.

    It was eye-opening and every gun carrier needs to experience something similar.

    Mozambique or El Pres weren't even mentioned.

    Just multiple rounds/shoot-them-to-the-ground/point/retention shooting. Lot's of GOTX.

    Even (GASP!) ground fighting with a gun!
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by pir8fan View Post
    There's usually one guy that seems to be the most aggressive (the leader, usually). The idea is to take him out first. Human psychology being what it is, the followers will almost always lose some or all of their enthusiasm. If nothing else, it will buy you a moment or two of indecision/hesitation on their part. That might just be the edge you need.
    Ever seen a pack of wolves attack? Once the attack is in motion, the decision is made. You must reset their OODA cycle (or their CNS).
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    Everyone who has taken the S.I. 0-5Ft Gunfighting Class.

    It was eye-opening and every gun carrier needs to experience something similar.

    Mozambique or El Pres weren't even mentioned.

    Just multiple rounds/shoot-them-to-the-ground/point/retention shooting. Lot's of GOTX.

    Even (GASP!) ground fighting with a gun!
    Multiple shooters at Tactical Defense Institute provided my wakey-wakey. Like you said, everybody should experience something similar.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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  6. #51
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Scott, while I have not done 0-5 I have done CRG, PSP and FOF. Mike, what I found when going up against multiple shooters with the GOTX and not taking hits is 1-2 to be doable, 3 is a maybe and a big question mark and 4 is most likely hits will be taken. So when going up against multiple be prepared to take hits but keep fighting as long as you can stand and move. If you can't stand and move but can still hold up the gun then keep firing it. The fights not over till you are dead.

    My findings in situations is that the more violence you can throw in their face the more you turn the fight to your way of fighting and the more confused they (BG) become. Make the thought in their mind be "I don't want to be here" (with a few other choice words thrown in)
    ScottM and tcox4freedom like this.
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  7. #52
    Member Array slidewayz240's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Has anyone else other than Scott ever done a force on force drill with multiple well-armed attackers?
    me... just got back from California training with the Navy and these guys

    Tactical Firearms Training Team

    Didnt go too bad. Just had to be very "aware"

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    Scott, while I have not done 0-5 I have done CRG, PSP and FOF. Mike, what I found when going up against multiple shooters with the GOTX and not taking hits is 1-2 to be doable, 3 is a maybe and a big question mark and 4 is most likely hits will be taken. So when going up against multiple be prepared to take hits but keep fighting as long as you can stand and move. If you can't stand and move but can still hold up the gun then keep firing it. The fights not over till you are dead.

    My findings in situations is that the more violence you can throw in their face the more you turn the fight to your way of fighting and the more confused they (BG) become. Make the thought in their mind be "I don't want to be here" (with a few other choice words thrown in)
    One shooter wasn't a poser in any of the scenarios I have run, and two weren't tough when both were in close proximity to each other, but it became very difficult with two shooters in different locations. Then, as you said, it usually became an exercise in responding after taking hits. What amazed me more than anything was the level of tunnel vision and auditory exclusion experienced by nearly everyone.
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    Scott, while I have not done 0-5 I have done CRG, PSP and FOF. Mike, what I found when going up against multiple shooters with the GOTX and not taking hits is 1-2 to be doable, 3 is a maybe and a big question mark and 4 is most likely hits will be taken. So when going up against multiple be prepared to take hits but keep fighting as long as you can stand and move. If you can't stand and move but can still hold up the gun then keep firing it. The fights not over till you are dead.

    My findings in situations is that the more violence you can throw in their face the more you turn the fight to your way of fighting and the more confused they (BG) become. Make the thought in their mind be "I don't want to be here" (with a few other choice words thrown in)
    One needs to be prepared to take a hit(s) regardless of how many BG's there are.

    But I agree that the more you face, the better their chances are.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by slidewayz240 View Post
    me... just got back from California training with the Navy and these guys

    Tactical Firearms Training Team

    Didnt go too bad. Just had to be very "aware"
    Was that partner-type training or individual response, or both?
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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  11. #56
    Member Array slidewayz240's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Was that partner-type training or individual response, or both?
    Both. 2 week long training course, we covered everything from hand to hand combat to clearing rooms/ buildings.

    edit- Let me say that personally, I would NEVER want to be in a situation where I am stuck engaging multiple targets alone. If I can run, i more than likely would. But if I am left with no other option but to engage, I am simply explaining what I would do.

    And for anyone in the Azusa California area or anyone with the money to travel and train... I highly recommend the TFTT course's.

    and my unit also trains with www.threatgroup.com another great group of guys to learn from.

  12. #57
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    I agree, I want absolutely nothing to do with multiple aggressors all by myself.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by pir8fan View Post
    There's usually one guy that seems to be the most aggressive (the leader, usually). The idea is to take him out first. Human psychology being what it is, the followers will almost always lose some or all of their enthusiasm. If nothing else, it will buy you a moment or two of indecision/hesitation on their part. That might just be the edge you need.
    This. And since it was mentioned previously:

    Well, that one in the center: he had a flap holster and he was in no itchin' hurry. And the one second from the left: he had scared eyes, he wasn't gonna do nothin'. But that one on the far left: he had crazy eyes. Figured him to make the first move.
    In Absentia Luci Tenebrae Vincu

    There is a line between good and evil, no wider than a razor's edge.
    I hold the line.
    I am the line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    Spread the love, share the wealth, repeat as necessary.
    pretty much it.

    We were always taught ... 2-3 for each one, and extra as necessary, if they are equal threats.
    Typically, they are not equal. We used to practice shooting up to 5 threats and rapid fire.
    If you practice it, you might be amazed how fast and accurate you can get at it.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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    Quote Originally Posted by blanco64 View Post
    Granted it's been almost 20 years, but when I was doing my pistol qualifying in the Air Force, the directions were "two shots to the chest, move to the next target".
    I agree with this.

    Hopefully two of the bad guys run when they see the first guy go down.

    Luke
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