Teen gang attack inside crowded city bus - Page 2

Teen gang attack inside crowded city bus

This is a discussion on Teen gang attack inside crowded city bus within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by tricolordad Teen girls? Sounds like a gang likely to break up when Melissa gets caught holding hands with Jessica's ex, Tim, who ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    Teen girls? Sounds like a gang likely to break up when Melissa gets caught holding hands with Jessica's ex, Tim, who Sarah said she saw kissing.....


    ^^^^^^^^Dude^^^^^^^^^^^^^


    You gotta stop watching Pretty Little Liars and get some work done.
    J/K.

    Lots of interesting factors here to think about.

    Is the girl she's ready to beat down or stab really a gang member, or someone who just stole her BF?
    Is the girl about to be stabbed a gangbanger or a nerd who might remind you of your cousin?
    Is the girl about to "get it" alone and outnumbered?
    I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    "Know the law" is a full time job when traveling through other states and cities. (How many are aware that carry on a Greyhound is against company rules? I checked the federal law number on the poster prohibiting carry on "The Dog", and it refers to credit for airlines, not weapons. But, I'm assuming a city bus, and cities like Seattle are trying to block legal carry through illegal laws.) The unknown legality is a factor, as is whether the victim deserves to be murdered (I did mention that the violence is escalating and anyone who thinks a bunch of trash teen agers will not kill has not been paying attention to the news.) "Map the bullet path"? Of course. You are sitting, the nearest is standing right in front of you, an upward angle is obvious. As are the people on the other side of the closest and the metal roof overhead.

    Risk the legal hit and (probably) save a life, or can anyone think of an alternative that does not involve risking innocent lives by releasing OC spray inside a moving vehicle, with the driver sharing the air, and spray, inside the bus?

  3. #18
    Member Array TangoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillep Harding View Post
    "Know the law" is a full time job when traveling through other states and cities. (How many are aware that carry on a Greyhound is against company rules? I checked the federal law number on the poster prohibiting carry on "The Dog", and it refers to credit for airlines, not weapons. But, I'm assuming a city bus, and cities like Seattle are trying to block legal carry through illegal laws.) The unknown legality is a factor, as is whether the victim deserves to be murdered (I did mention that the violence is escalating and anyone who thinks a bunch of trash teen agers will not kill has not been paying attention to the news.) "Map the bullet path"? Of course. You are sitting, the nearest is standing right in front of you, an upward angle is obvious. As are the people on the other side of the closest and the metal roof overhead.

    Risk the legal hit and (probably) save a life, or can anyone think of an alternative that does not involve risking innocent lives by releasing OC spray inside a moving vehicle, with the driver sharing the air, and spray, inside the bus?
    It has been awhile since I have posted, but I am biting.

    First, you are right it is a full time job to know the rules and laws. However, feel free to use ignorance as a defense to your possible felony charges. When you tell the Judge that you did not check the laws to see if you could legally carry where you were, let me know how that turns out. You do not have to know every law in the country, but you dang well look into the specific places you are going. Google or search this forum for the several recent cases in NYC about armed citizens that didn't check the NYC laws. I am concerned that your, for lack of a better word, lazy attitude is going to put you in a world of hurt someday. It might also make your fellow armed citizens look bad as well.

    Second, a knife/gun fight in the close quarters is a bad situation with no good outcome. I think we sometimes try and over simplify these scenarios. It is very likely that the other "bangers" are also armed, and you would face multiple assailants. I would want a lot of very specific training before encountering something like this. Soldiers train to clear a room for 100's of hours before deploying and there is still a high rate of casualties. I might call 911, grip my pistol, loudly announce I am calling the police. At the same time I am backing away to the back. I need distance to draw when they enviably come for me. People will be injured, likely myself as well, and people will likely die. I cannot let someone be murdered without trying to help, but there will be long lasting consequences. That is my initial thoughts.

    Edited for terrible grammar.
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  4. #19
    Member Array TangoMonkey's Avatar
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    Also discussing "bullet paths". Bullets are funny thing. When they hit stuff, they tend to go all over the place. It is very possible that it could deflect and injure or kill another "banger" or bystander. These are factors of which you must be aware. Again, there is no good outcome if you pull the trigger. I still carry, as do those on this forum, because I will try be best to stop as much evil towards my family as I can. I will also help others when I can. I just know that everything is not black and white. It was the choice of the "bangers" that brought us to this point, so they have the blood on their hands. Having probably killed someone my self, I can tell you there is still guilt on your shoulders even if it was a "good shoot".

    Perhaps the "bangers" will back off when you step up to help. That is good end to the scenario.
    Spirit51 likes this.
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  5. #20
    Senior Member Array Nebraska12's Avatar
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    I'd stay out of it. They come after me or mine? I'm done playing witness.
    tcox4freedom and msgt/ret like this.
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  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    OP said enemy not other gang banger. Did he mean gang banger.

    If I'm there an witness from the beginning, I'm fairly certain the knife wielding girl would be ordered to drop the knife or get dropped!

    I'm not criticising those that would do nothing. We've had this discussion already!
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokinFool View Post
    Yeah, I thought of that too, but in a crowded bus (as the OP described) the chemical would more than likely affect other people, as well as the intended target. If one of the nearby passengers has asthma, it could really cause a problem.
    what it will do is get the bus stopped and get the action off the bus and maybe the victim will have half a chance, besides everyone will get over it and it just might save a life.
    Just for the record I for one will not get involved unless it affects me or other innocent bystanders. Bangers are going to fight and that’s what we have LEO’s on the payroll for
    tcox4freedom likes this.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    OP said enemy not other gang banger. Did he mean gang banger.

    If I'm there an witness from the beginning, I'm fairly certain the knife wielding girl would be ordered to drop the knife or get dropped!

    I'm not criticising those that would do nothing. We've had this discussion already!
    And I'm sure we will have it a few more times. I'm not even sure about an order to drop it, given what I have seen with act/react times.
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  9. #24
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoMonkey View Post
    ... I am concerned that your, for lack of a better word, lazy attitude is going to put you in a world of hurt someday. It might also make your fellow armed citizens look bad as well.

    Second, a knife/gun fight in the close quarters is a bad situation with no good outcome. I think we sometimes try and over simplify these scenarios. It is very likely that the other "bangers" are also armed, and you would face multiple assailants. I would want a lot of very specific training before encountering something like this. Soldiers train to clear a room for 100's of hours before deploying and there is still a high rate of casualties. I might call 911, grip my pistol, loudly announce I am calling the police. At the same time I am backing away to the back. I need distance to draw when they enviably come for me. People will be injured, likely myself as well, and people will likely die. I cannot let someone be murdered without trying to help, but there will be long lasting consequences. That is my initial thoughts.

    Edited for terrible grammar.
    "Risk the legal hit" assumes all your specific objections.

    "Risk the legal hit and (probably) save a life,... " Well, no contest if it's my life on the line, that's why I'd be carrying there anyhow, even if it's known illegal. Intervening always carries the risk of legal problems, even where legal to carry, and people sometimes get off even when carry is illegal and they use the firearm to save a life, especially if it is someone who tends to receive preferential treatment (cute blond with big blue eyes, etc?)

    I mentioned Greyhound and Seattle as examples of outfits that lie about the law, so a web search cannot be relied on. Taking my recent travel as an example, I had to pass through Seattle on my way to a hospital. I note with amusement the assumption that I have the funds to use alternative methods and routes. Only the well off are allowed to defend themselves?

    Some are assuming that the victim was a gang banger. Gangs kill people who are not members, as well, and racially motivated violence is on an increase. (Anyone who takes that statement as racist is a fool.)

    Re read the original post and think that over. "Packed bus" "Seated toward the back" no room to retreat, very close quarters. You are also assuming that the gang would react the way males would react. Females specified. You are trained to clear rooms of people who have some mental preparation for that type of situation, such a gang as specified expects to not face sudden danger, but normally goes through posturing rituals, unless it's a pack chase or ambush attack. A sudden threat, such as a single gunshot, from an unknown direction or distance, would throw them off balance. If they have zero preparation for this and someone intervening could ride that confusion and fear to victory.

    Still, the fact that I asked for alternative courses of action should indicate that I dislike the idea of just shooting the closest gang bangers, even if it's about all I can think of. Aside from just sitting there and letting the law take it's leisurely course after the fact.

    (BTW, I'm not assuming FMJ, so the bullet is not going to take off sideways. As implied, the gang is packed tight so any pass through could only hit another gang member, if anyone, who would be equally responsible even if only one other has a knife.)

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillep Harding View Post
    Got to thinking about this while riding a bus in another town.

    Suppose the you are on a city bus some time when it's crowded. You are sitting toward the back. A bunch of delinquent teen girls spot an enemy on the bus a couple of seats ahead oh you and close in. They are starting to get violent, clearly they are going to escalate to bodily harm, and do so, but the driver has not done anything to indicate he is aware or doing something about it. A knife comes out.

    You are carrying concealed. Carrying may or may not be illegal on the bus but you have not checked (good luck tracking all such laws/regs/rules). There is no one between you and the closest of the gang, and any pass throughs would just hit another of the gang, and the angle is upward through the roof anyhow (velocity loss might make the bullet essentially harmless, if it hit someone outside the bus. More likely it would hit a car roof.)

    Intervene? When and how?
    Okee Dokee, Why are you shooting at the nearest gang member and not the one with a knife. Try defending yourself in court with that one. "Gee your honor, I saw a knife and thought a person was going to be killed so I shot the closest person I could" All what that "gangbanger" would have to say is "I was trying to get them to stop..until I was hit by a bullet."

    As far as you theory of where the bullet would go...ever seen what happens after a bullet enters a body and hits a bone? That would not fly either. That thing could come out at 90 degrees hitting a baby.

    You did not think this scenario through very good in my mind.
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  11. #26
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    One further thing I would like to add. You better hope you are in a state where carrying a gun an a bus is illegal. Going to jail for illegal carry and shooting "the closest gangabanger" would be the least of your worries. If it was in a state that allows carry and there are other cc'ers on board you can be in a world of hurt.

    You see the knife, you perceive the threat, you take out your gun, and you fire a shot. In your scenario the bus is crowded and most folks would not be seeing what you are. Now that everyone is deaf from the shot any commands or explanation you give will not be heard. Most likley another CC'er will look up from his iPhone and see a dead girl and a guy with a smoking gun...what do YOU think will happen next?
    barstoolguru and Adrenaline like this.
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  12. #27
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    There are too many unknowns in this scenario, and there are no good outcomes, as far as I can see. What I do know is that I would not take any action unless I or one of my friends/loved ones were in immediate danger. As I said in my first reply, I realize this is a bit callous, but it's the reality of the world in which we live. Also, I certainly would not advocate carrying a firearm in places where it is not legal to do so, but maybe that's just me.

  13. #28
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    If you know it is Gang on Gang, then leave your brain on high, your mouth shut and your CC where it is. Don't even put your hand on it.

    If you do not feel threaten, then your job is being calm and quiet. You other job is to be a good witness and put your brain to work remembering detailed information.

    After it is all over, tell the Police that you will coroperate with them and will testify. That is a good witness.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by VNvet View Post
    If you know it is Gang on Gang, then leave your brain on high, your mouth shut and your CC where it is. Don't even put your hand on it.

    If you do not feel threaten, then your job is being calm and quiet. You other job is to be a good witness and put your brain to work remembering detailed information.

    After it is all over, tell the Police that you will coroperate with them and will testify. That is a good witness.
    I tried to find something in your post I agree with, to no avail.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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  15. #30
    Member Array _Hawkeye_'s Avatar
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    I am not gonna fool with it. I will watch and not act unless my life is in danger.
    English is my second language, I have been told my use of it is harsh, apologies if this is the matter.

    You know what stops a bad guy with a gun? A good guy with a gun

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