Depression

This is a discussion on Depression within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I wish I was qualified to give the OP the advise he needs. I will second the advise Suntzu gave, this is not the place.......

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  1. #31
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    I wish I was qualified to give the OP the advise he needs. I will second the advise Suntzu gave, this is not the place....

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torgo1968 View Post
    There is nothing wrong with attempting non-drug treatments first. But if you've got a long term problem and a good doctor/psychiatrist properly diagnoses you, don't discount drug-based treatment. They aren't "happy pills". Finding the right combination can work miracles, particularly when used in conjunction with cognitive behavioral therapy.
    I would focus on discovering and eliminating if possible what is causing the depression and would recommend prescription drugs only as a last resort. Its pretty common that a man's sex drive is shut down after taking anti-depressants. Trying to get off of anti-depressants after even a year of use can be worse than what caused you to take them in the first place. I know guys that have taken Paxil and Effexor and they said it just made them feel numb, and that it eliminated whatever sex life they had. They also said that after the cause of the anxiety or depression was gone, they had a hell of a time tapering off the drugs and had to take a week off of work to do it. When tapering off the drugs, they said they experienced "brain zaps", and would be happy one moment and crying uncontrollably for no reason the next. Even after quitting the drugs, it took some time for normal sexual function to return, and one of them had long term negative sexual side effects.

    I recommend:
    1. Eliminate the cause if possible.
    2. Start exercising
    3. Find your happy place.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by torgo1968 View Post
    This can't be repeated enough. Neither going to a psychiatrist or seeing a therapist will get your gun ownership rights taken away. That's just nonsense.
    Not quite. Some caution is needed in
    exactly what you say and what you mean.
    Lots of depressed folks are no danger
    to themselves, some are. If you
    mistakenly convey the impression that
    you desire to take your life, there could
    be serious repercussions to your freedom
    and your rights.

    OTOH if that is where your brain is at,
    you do owe it to yourself to put the guns
    away and to be frank and honest with
    your doctors.

    +1 for Cognitive Behavioral Therapy but
    sometimes folks just lack the ability
    to engage in therapy unless they are
    first treated with antidepressants and
    anti-anxiety meds.

    Best source of help is an MD or DO who
    specializes in treating anxiety and depession
    medically, who can and will refer you to
    an appropriate licensed therapist.
    tcox4freedom likes this.
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  5. #34
    Senior Member Array DoctorBob's Avatar
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    This is NOT meant to be a thread on psychotropic medication. I have extensive experience after practicing for 35 years and having 2 years of emergency psychiatry fellowship during my training.

    While I would not rule out the use of antidepressants or other psychotropic meds, I feel that they may be used ONLY after serious consideration of the harm versus benefit balance. There are LOTS of issues with them. For example, read Anatomy of an Epidemic by Whitaker: Anatomy of an Epidemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  6. #35
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    I would suggest a change of scenery......sometimes just being in a new place will be exciting and uplift the spirits.....if not Go Fishing.
    xsigma40cal likes this.

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    This is NOT meant to be a thread on psychotropic medication. I have extensive experience after practicing for 35 years and having 2 years of emergency psychiatry fellowship during my training.

    While I would not rule out the use of antidepressants or other psychotropic meds, I feel that they may be used ONLY after serious consideration of the harm versus benefit balance. There are LOTS of issues with them. For example, read Anatomy of an Epidemic by Whitaker: Anatomy of an Epidemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Exercise for depression is so successful that in the UK the doctor may write a prescription for exercise. In fact, studies have shown that exercise produces a "substantial improvement" within six weeks, that its effect size is "large," and that 70% of all depressed patients respond to an exercise program. "These success rates are quite remarkable," German investigators wrote in 2008. Anatomy of an Epidemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Thanks for the link, Doc! I think its pretty amazing that 70% of those suffering from depression will improve with excercise.
    Last edited by Chesafreak; September 20th, 2012 at 10:19 AM.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
    I would focus on discovering and eliminating if possible what is causing the depression and would recommend prescription drugs only as a last resort. Its pretty common that a man's sex drive is shut down after taking anti-depressants. Trying to get off of anti-depressants after even a year of use can be worse than what caused you to take them in the first place. I know guys that have taken Paxil and Effexor and they said it just made them feel numb, and that it eliminated whatever sex life they had. They also said that after the cause of the anxiety or depression was gone, they had a hell of a time tapering off the drugs and had to take a week off of work to do it. When tapering off the drugs, they said they experienced "brain zaps", and would be happy one moment and crying uncontrollably for no reason the next. Even after quitting the drugs, it took some time for normal sexual function to return, and one of them had long term negative sexual side effects.

    I recommend:
    1. Eliminate the cause if possible.
    2. Start exercising
    3. Find your happy place.
    I took both Paxil & Effexor; and a few others trying to find the right medication. I ended up taking Effexor for several years. It did numb my mind & destroy my sex drive. I went months & months without touching my wife. My wife also took Paxil and some other med (?). Between the two of us we went as long as a YEAR without any intimacy. (This only seved to make us more depressed.)

    Three or four years ago we both decided to cut out our meds cold turkey! It took us about 45days to detox. But, now our life is 100% better; and our sex life is pretty active for folks our age.


    It's truly sad to see how bad our society depends on a "pill" for everything. We seem to be always looking for a quick fix and we are taught never to question our doctors.

    IMHO;
    We should ALWAYS question our doctors and seek any alternatives before we reach for the medicine cabinet.


    -

  9. #38
    Member Array CPanther95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    It's truly sad to see how bad our society depends on a "pill" for everything.
    -
    And additional pills to treat the side effects of those pills.
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  10. #39
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post
    And additional pills to treat the side effects of those pills.
    Every time I see a prescription drug commercial I think about how smart those companies are (in an evil way) that they exponentially increase thier sales by getting you on one drug, then more drugs to combat the bad side effects. Brilliant!

    If you pay attention to those commercials, at the end they rattle off the list of side effects. Usually the side effects are worse than what they cure.
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  11. #40
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    SWIM took CBT a few times for depression as a result of some childhood bumps in the road. Didn't help. SWIM worked through it and is okay now. No medication needed. However, SWIM now has anxiety issues and takes medication for it after CBT failed again. All is well so far

  12. #41
    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
    I would focus on discovering and eliminating if possible what is causing the depression and would recommend prescription drugs only as a last resort. Its pretty common that a man's sex drive is shut down after taking anti-depressants. Trying to get off of anti-depressants after even a year of use can be worse than what caused you to take them in the first place. I know guys that have taken Paxil and Effexor and they said it just made them feel numb, and that it eliminated whatever sex life they had. They also said that after the cause of the anxiety or depression was gone, they had a hell of a time tapering off the drugs and had to take a week off of work to do it. When tapering off the drugs, they said they experienced "brain zaps", and would be happy one moment and crying uncontrollably for no reason the next. Even after quitting the drugs, it took some time for normal sexual function to return, and one of them had long term negative sexual side effects.

    I recommend:
    1. Eliminate the cause if possible.
    2. Start exercising
    3. Find your happy place.
    This is a series of anecdotes. I can produce stories that say the exact opposite. Yes, anti-depressants, like most powerful drugs, can have side effects. That's why I said, "finding the right combination". Note also that I made it clear that everyone should be properly diagnosed by both a physician and a psychiatrist, and that talk therapy in conjunction with drugs has been shown to be the best treatment. As for your recommendations:

    1) It often isn't possible.
    2) Great, but it's not a miracle cure (like drugs sometimes aren't), and for many with clinical depression, getting out of bed is like climbing Mt. Everest.
    3) One of the worst aspects of depression is that it takes the joy out of things you normally love, in other words, it nukes your happy place.

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torgo1968 View Post
    This is a series of anecdotes. I can produce stories that say the exact opposite. Yes, anti-depressants, like most powerful drugs, can have side effects. That's why I said, "finding the right combination". Note also that I made it clear that everyone should be properly diagnosed by both a physician and a psychiatrist, and that talk therapy in conjunction with drugs has been shown to be the best treatment. As for your recommendations:

    1) It often isn't possible.
    2) Great, but it's not a miracle cure (like drugs sometimes aren't), and for many with clinical depression, getting out of bed is like climbing Mt. Everest.
    3) One of the worst aspects of depression is that it takes the joy out of things you normally love, in other words, it nukes your happy place.
    I can tell you from personal experience (which I didn't want to admit to in my earlier post) and a lot of research online that those side effects are VERY common.

    Yes, everyone should be properly diagnosed by a professional, and I realize that I forgot to state that in my post. The problem is that most professionals are going to be quick to write you a prescription, and its up to the patient to say no. Most people are going to trust the doctor and take the script.

    On points 1 through 3 lets use some common sense:

    1) If I say often it IS possible, I couldn't prove that just like you can't prove it isn't often possible. Are you telling us that most people don't have a clue that they are depressed because of their job, marriage, money, etc.?
    2) It may not be a miracle cure, but it has been proven to be successful in treating 70% of cases AND its not some toxic drug with side effects, AND its actually good for you.
    Exercise for depression is so successful that in the UK the doctor may write a prescription for exercise. In fact, studies have shown that exercise produces a "substantial improvement" within six weeks, that its effect size is "large," and that 70% of all depressed patients respond to an exercise program. "These success rates are quite remarkable," German investigators wrote in 2008. Anatomy of an Epidemic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    3) Are you telling us that its IMPOSSIBLE to think back to a happy time or place or find a hobby or activity that you enjoy? Its a proven fact, and I use it quite frequently, that if you are in a bad mood and you just smile and/or think about something that makes you smile it will make you feel better.

    You sure are a "Debbie Downer" for shooting down three things that are common sense and WORK, without any proof otherwise.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

  14. #43
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    I took both Paxil & Effexor; and a few others trying to find the right medication. I ended up taking Effexor for several years. It did numb my mind & destroy my sex drive. I went months & months without touching my wife. My wife also took Paxil and some other med (?). Between the two of us we went as long as a YEAR without any intimacy. (This only seved to make us more depressed.)

    Three or four years ago we both decided to cut out our meds cold turkey! It took us about 45days to detox. But, now our life is 100% better; and our sex life is pretty active for folks our age.


    It's truly sad to see how bad our society depends on a "pill" for everything. We seem to be always looking for a quick fix and we are taught never to question our doctors.

    IMHO;
    We should ALWAYS question our doctors and seek any alternatives before we reach for the medicine cabinet.


    -
    tcox, thanks for sharing that. I can only hope that someone will benefit from your experience....

  15. #44
    Member Array MBRIDER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
    Every time I see a prescription drug commercial I think about how smart those companies are (in an evil way) that they exponentially increase thier sales by getting you on one drug, then more drugs to combat the bad side effects. Brilliant!

    If you pay attention to those commercials, at the end they rattle off the list of side effects. Usually the side effects are worse than what they cure.
    Do you ever fart? Have you ever had a series of farts? If so, you may be suffering from X. Please see your physician and ask about our drugs, odds are out pharmaceutical reps have already made great incentive for your doctor to prescribe the use of our drugs.
    tcox4freedom likes this.

  16. #45
    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesafreak View Post
    I can tell you from personal experience (which I didn't want to admit to in my earlier post) and a lot of research online that those side effects are VERY common.
    I'm talking from personal experience as well. I didn't deny that side effects are common. I've experienced many of them, and any sane, competent professional will make you aware of them and do everything possible to alleviate them if they occur.

    Yes, everyone should be properly diagnosed by a professional, and I realize that I forgot to state that in my post. The problem is that most professionals are going to be quick to write you a prescription, and its up to the patient to say no. Most people are going to trust the doctor and take the script.
    I can't really answer this except to say that the consumer needs to be as informed as possible and get at least a second opinion when necessary.

    On points 1 through 3 lets use some common sense:

    1) If I say often it IS possible, I couldn't prove that just like you can't prove it isn't often possible. Are you telling us that most people don't have a clue that they are depressed because of their job, marriage, money, etc.?
    No, that's not what I said. I said that it often isn't possible. I didn't specify a percentage. Yes, for depression on the mild end of the spectrum, a direct cause can be identified and is possible to deal with. But at the other end, there can be no proximate cause for depression, or a specific event can kick off a bad episode that becomes independent of the event.

    2) It may not be a miracle cure, but it has been proven to be successful in treating 70% of cases AND its not some toxic drug with side effects, AND its actually good for you.
    I didn't disagree with you on this. I just pointed out that it's not going to work for everyone and that it's a difficult thing to prescribe when many with severe depression find it difficult if not impossible to do anything.

    3) Are you telling us that its IMPOSSIBLE to think back to a happy time or place or find a hobby or activity that you enjoy? Its a proven fact, and I use it quite frequently, that if you are in a bad mood and you just smile and/or think about something that makes you smile it will make you feel better.
    Same thing as for #1. Yes, there are cases where people can use positive thinking and consciously deal with their depression. That's a big part of what cognitive behavioral therapy is about. But again, it's not going to work for everyone. If everything that brings you joy no longer does, which is a common symptom, it's hard to find your happy place.

    You sure are a "Debbie Downer" for shooting down three things that are common sense and WORK, without any proof otherwise.
    Thanks for the name calling. I'll answer with, you must be a Larry Lack Of Reading Comprehension for thinking I "shot down" your suggestions. All of your suggestions are good ones and any competent professional will have them in their tool box of treatments. I was just trying to blunt your obvious bias against pharmacological treatment.

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