Why Most Doomsday Preppers Will Die - An Opinion Deserving Consideration.

This is a discussion on Why Most Doomsday Preppers Will Die - An Opinion Deserving Consideration. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by QKShooter I have posted "likes" for many members who have posted a thoughtful opinion in this thread no matter if I totally ...

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  1. #61
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    I have posted "likes" for many members who have posted a thoughtful opinion in this thread no matter if I totally agree with it or not.
    I want to encourage thoughtful non-racial debate on the topic of hoards and gang mentality etc. keeping in mind that potentially predatory people come in all flavors and varieties. Especially when food, shelter, family, medicine, etc. etc. are in jeopardy.
    You want to encourage thoughtful, non-racial debate on gang mentality and you start the discussion with a video of homey tellin' me I gots to beware him an his posse..? oooookay.

    Homey's right.

    They think they'll be goin' out of the hood and going to the country to get what they needs... And, eventually some of them will, as I stated before. And those who do will be the best of the best or the worst of the worst (depending on your perspective)...

    Based on an istorical perspective... And using current events as the example...

    Homey spends a lot of time killing his own kind. Ethnicity counts for only a little in this... Even in Capone's era, the thugs were awfully busy killing each other and a few innocents got injured in the melee, just like today. For the most part criminal activity happens among the criminal class...

    Now, when the SHTF... It's gonna take some time for the resident's of the projects to realize that the lights ain't out because they didn't pay the bill... the lights are out everywhere... They're going to loot themselves first... And spread out from there... and there will be infighting. There will be attrition... There will be a group of them, separate from them, that will be waiting and watching... They will become the leaders that will take/lead the survivors out of the city....

    They will be capable, they will be hardened.. and they will be dangerous. But they will also feed on themselves to a degree, and there will be losses in the field... In skirmishes, inclement weather, disease... With good leadership... they might make it to close in rural areas... but the further out they go, the smaller their number will be.

    The chances of a real army like "Posse" as in One Second After sweeping through the towns, becomes more and more remote the further out from a metro area you get... any metro area of say 100,000 or more... larger cities will have larger hordes escaping further out... but they start dying off like a prairie fire does when there's less and less grass.

    Those are my thoughtful, non racial musings on homey and his posse.
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    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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  3. #62
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    It looks like I'm one of the only ones who actually watched all four videos all the way through.

    And, in my humble opinion, anyone who refuses to listen and learn something, even from someone they don't see as credible, is a fool.

    First of all, he does not advocate going out and killing anyone to steal their stuff. He doesn't deny it will happen, but he clearly states that will not be his initial goal in assembling a "gang." His goal is defense in numbers and pooling resources and collecting numbers so that other groups that come along are deterred by their high numbers. He also does speak about the need for leadership and organization within the group to stave off internal collapse.

    Also, those who think that just shooting a bunch of people will deter the next group that comes along. I am afraid you underestimate human desperation.

    It has happened time and time again in countries all over the world. Starve a people for long enough and they won't care how many people they loose or how wounded they are. They will keep coming and word will spread that you have something to defend. Many times in places like Russia, Czechoslovakia, any number of African nations, the people chosen to defend the food banks or grain trucks could empty machine guns into the advancing, hungry crowd and it was no deterrent at all. The crowds climbed over their dead, took out the gunners and got their food.

    Shooting people as a deterrent will work for a few weeks, maybe even a month or two but when people get really desperate, they won't care how many they have to sacrifice to get a slice of bread.

    Also, keeping a low profile will not work long term. There will come a time when gangs (and relatively well-organized gangs) of people will begin to go door to door searching for anything they can use. Once they meet resistance they will know you have something worth defending and they will likely start to plan a better means of finding out just what you are hiding.

    You can also not forget about the people who already have OUTSTANDING organization and skills. Police forces that have banded together, military platoons and special groups who go rogue. They aren't exceptionally good at living off the land and farming, but they can hack it through whatever and are a well-training killing machine. And why go through all of the work of farming and living when you can rove town to town, village to village on stolen gas and goods? These groups will not come marching down the road.. they will sneak up in the grass. They will recon you and your group. They will watch for however long it takes to find your hideout and/or stash. They might even send in a frail female or child to ask for help to report back. Next thing you know you have a ka-bar buried in your gut at 2:34 in the morning and the former army ranger is congratulating himself on the new rifle and ammo he gets to add to his arsenal and maybe even deciding whether or not he should immediately kill your wife.

    A group of well-trained people (and a legitimate fortress) will FAR better defend against those types of groups than just two or three people.

    Yes, stealthy living COMPLETELY off the grid (the middle of the woods somewhere in dug-outs instead of houses) would also be a better strategy .. cause if you can't be found, you can't be defeated. But not all of us have the resources to go stock up in a dug out in the woods somewhere.

    And, yes, groups need leadership, organization, a social and economic system that allows for trades of work and goods to keep it replenished and functioning. A group would not/will not be an easy thing to maintain but there IS safety in numbers and many hands make light work.

  4. #63
    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post
    I made a general comment based on the previous posts, but didn't actually watch the videos. However, after watching the videos, I gotta admit that about 95% of what this guy is saying accurate IMO and well worth watching just to get your mind thinking about SHTF organization of personnel in addition to resources. He doesn't discourage stockpiling, he's discouraging stockpiling and having a plan that doesn't go beyond holing up in your residence until your stores are depleted.

    The point was not that "my group of gangbangers from the city will take your redneck stockpiles", it was that everybody needs numbers to protect their resources and to forage for additional resources. If your family is prepared, but alone, you aren't just vulnerable to the "roving bands of gangbangers" - you are vulnerable to any group around you, even your neighbors, if they become desperate enough for your resources and have assembled the numbers necessary to take them by force.

    Many of us have said that our ammo stockpiles far exceed any foreseeable scenario that would allow us to survive long enough to expend it all. This guy is just discussing a something that should be factored into any preparation in order to lengthen that survival time.

    There's an old Army saying:
    "An Army of Jackasses led by a Lion is infinitely more effective than an army of Lions led by a Jackass."

    What this guy is saying is that either of those Armies in large numbers is more effective than just 1, 2 or even 5 Lions.
    Ok... I've now accepted the fact that I will get nothing done at work today!

    I feel that I really need to watch the rest of the vid's; however difficult I know that it will be!

    A few specific counterpoints/comments...

    First paragraph: Good. Those I agree with.

    Second and remaining: I may have not gotten to my point directly enough to get it across...

    My "redneck stockpile" is a 15000 acre (random number, just think big) collection of family farms, rivers, lakes, woods, etc.

    Things that the roving bands are unable to pick up and carry off.

    As far as either armies are concerned...

    I have yet to see (through history) an effective campaign waged against a guerilla warfare style bunch of people (which is exactly what this guy is going to be facing once he gets a few miles outside the urban sprawls) determined to defend their own homeland that they know like the back of their hand.

    He may also underestimate the size of some families in these rural areas and just how strong the "ties that bind" are.

    I'll have to watch the rest to determine that.

    I'm really glad that all the Admins/Mods have decided this was worth starting a thread about.

    And for the record: I'm only planning for short-term SHTF personally, (2 to 3 weeks)

    I know that doesn't work for everyone.

    My long-term plan (live off the land) was provided by God thousands of years ago and has stood the test of time.

    "Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain" Robert Jordan
    USMC veteran
    Glock 19 Gen 4
    Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes

  5. #64
    Member Array Roon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post
    I made a general comment based on the previous posts, but didn't actually watch the videos. However, after watching the videos, I gotta admit that about 95% of what this guy is saying accurate IMO and well worth watching just to get your mind thinking about SHTF organization of personnel in addition to resources. He doesn't discourage stockpiling, he's discouraging stockpiling and having a plan that doesn't go beyond holing up in your residence until your stores are depleted.

    The point was not that "my group of gangbangers from the city will take your redneck stockpiles", it was that everybody needs numbers to protect their resources and to forage for additional resources. If your family is prepared, but alone, you aren't just vulnerable to the "roving bands of gangbangers" - you are vulnerable to any group around you, even your neighbors, if they become desperate enough for your resources and have assembled the numbers necessary to take them by force.

    Many of us have said that our ammo stockpiles far exceed any foreseeable scenario that would allow us to survive long enough to expend it all. This guy is just discussing a something that should be factored into any preparation in order to lengthen that survival time.

    There's an old Army saying:
    "An Army of Jackasses led by a Lion is infinitely more effective than an army of Lions led by a Jackass."

    What this guy is saying is that either of those Armies in large numbers is more effective than just 1, 2 or even 5 Lions.
    You can have your large army. I know the land, will almost surely have some serious advanced notice of your approach and therefore a serious tactical advantage. Hell, give a prepped home owner a 300 win mag and some ammo and they will have that army of jackasses thinking twice before they get within 400 yards of the property. Remember, there are no rules...no need to be in fear of death or great bodily harm before you act in a SHTF scenario. You perceive a threat you take it out.

  6. #65
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    And, in my humble opinion, anyone who refuses to listen and learn something, even from someone they don't see as credible, is a fool.
    Important to remember, whenever evaluating the opinions of others.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #66
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    You can also not forget about the people who already have OUTSTANDING organization and skills. Police forces that have banded together, military platoons and special groups who go rogue. They aren't exceptionally good at living off the land and farming, but they can hack it through whatever and are a well-training killing machine. And why go through all of the work of farming and living when you can rove town to town, village to village on stolen gas and goods? These groups will not come marching down the road.. they will sneak up in the grass. They will recon you and your group. They will watch for however long it takes to find your hideout and/or stash. They might even send in a frail female or child to ask for help to report back. Next thing you know you have a ka-bar buried in your gut at 2:34 in the morning and the former army ranger is congratulating himself on the new rifle and ammo he gets to add to his arsenal and maybe even deciding whether or not he should immediately kill your wife.
    OK Lima hit my fear "nail" on the head. It's not the people who come up my driveway that scare me. It's the people who come out of my woods who scare me. If someone has skill and patience then they are going to be trouble. A farmer has to go out and work his fields. If he doesn't the food doesn't grow. Someone waiting and watching for the right time to pounce will be big time trouble.

  8. #67
    Member Array Glhadiator's Avatar
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    I never needed the guy in the video to tell me how we as a society will deal with survival when the world falls into anarchy. To be sure he isn't telling us anything as much as bragging about how he and his 'family' will deal with starvation.


    We evolved from animals and those basic instincts for survival stiil exists inside us today. If you don't think so then try starving for awhile and watch what happens to you. Things you don't think that you would do become automatic or easy. I went through some training that subjected me to my more basic instincts. I learned that I would eat snakes, insects and maggots easily to survive.


    But when we live in a world filled with people, just having something to eat isn't enough. People have been taking from each other since the beginning of time. Humans banding together for survival has also been done since the beginning of time. I find it laughable that the guy in this video thinks he and his homeys are the only humans with this ability.

    How the tribal bands, or communities if you prefer, are formed will depend largely on the leadership available. And I don't just mean someone that wants to be king. Survival leadership will require a good grasp and application of Human Dynamics. It isn't enough to just form a group of citizens so they can defend themselves, they must also function and survive. The group will need to have a chain of command that is able to promote an organization with the sole purpose of survival.

    Of course we have guns. And some of us may have some supplies. But have you thought about what role you would fill in an organization of people struggling to survive? There will be many roles to fill:
    Leaders
    Militia
    Scout
    Medic
    Farmer
    Gatherer
    Scrounger
    Cook
    Engineer
    Builder
    Hunter
    Teacher
    etc, etc, etc...

    The guy in the video will try to survive on pack mentality. Do not underestimate the power and advantage that a pack can deliver. But as in all groups they too have a weakness. They function with Alpha leadership backed up with numbers. Their primary tactic is hit and run. If faced with superior numbers they will generally move on to easier targets.

    Be prepared to form or become a member of a group in the event society collapses. Create a cache of food, weapons, books, medicine and water so that you can survive long enough to form a group or become a member of one. Train yourself physically and mentally to do what you will need to do when the time comes.

    My biggest advantage? Knowledge, training and skill. His biggest advantage? He thinks he's tough.

    p.s. There are many here that I would band together with if the ballon went up, most especially limatunes.
    Phillep Harding and Hoganbeg like this.

    Serve my country, swear an oath to protect it, pay my taxes, fly old glory in the front yard, love and protect my family, honor the vets before me and help fellow americans in need.
    By definition my country now calls me a radical

  9. #68
    Member Array CPanther95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    You want to encourage thoughtful, non-racial debate on gang mentality and you start the discussion with a video of homey tellin' me I gots to beware him an his posse..? oooookay.

    Homey's right.

    They think they'll be goin' out of the hood and going to the country to get what they needs... And, eventually some of them will, as I stated before. And those who do will be the best of the best or the worst of the worst (depending on your perspective)...
    "Homey" is already out of the hood and has a decent sized plot of land. His "posse" consists of his family, friends and any others that will assemble and pool resources at the first sign of serious unrest (if he actually follows though planning what he suggests ahead of time).

    If you think it's only the bands of gangbangers in the city you need to worry about, just take a look at the mentality and actions of the white, suburban housewives in line at Target and Best Buy on Black Friday looking for a $20 doll or 1/2 price flatscreens or laptops for their kids' Christmas. These are the people living in your neighborhood, or the plot of land up the street. When they are seeking food for themselves or their kids, and they are armed, you're going to have waves of crazy all around you.

    And as lazy, and entitled, as this country has become, those waves of crazy will hit almost immediately. Organizing a defensive force to fend that off should be a top priority as "homey" suggests. And like it or not, when you and yours begin to start going hungry, you're going to want the numbers to turn that defensive force into an offensive force.
    pgrass101 likes this.

  10. #69
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    This is why I try to tell people that they cannot survive in isolation, it takes a community to survive long term. This is why I have worked to set-up community gardens, rain water collection barrels, in my small town. I have learned who in my community is reliable. I have helped a few set-up a decent food storage plan. And have gone shooting and hunting with others, I have talked the city council into letting me plant fruit and nut trees in our city. My wife helps the local 4-H club plant the high school vegetable garden.


    Is my community ready, no. Do I talk about solar flares, economic collapse or Armageddon, no. Do I talk about hurricanes, tornados, economic hard times, yes. Do I stress the benefits of having a long term food storage plan, yes. My goal is to try to develop a food self sufficiency plan for myself and a few others. Can my small town feed itself, no. But if you half the population it could. We have set up a group of gardeners in our church who donate our excess to the needy in our congregation and town.


    I know that I have to sleep, that someone can easily snipe me in my garden when I am harvesting sweet potatoes. I know that someone might see my dog as a meal instead of a deterrent. I know that I will need help to survive long term no matter how extensive my stores are. I know that I cannot do it in isolation.


    The first 120 days will eliminate the most unprepared, after that it will be hardened desperate people. I live 30 miles from a city with a population of 250,000 people. Some of them will head to my small farming town. It will not be one large group but swarms of people looking for food, in small and large groups. There will be hungry families with small children, whose parents will do whatever they can to feed their children.


    This will require constant vigilance that one person cannot maintain alone, it will take a community.


    Take two of my two neighbors (both a nearly a decade older than I am) one couple has been learning canning, sewing and other domestics skills form my wife, and I have helped them pick a Glock 19, put a 18" barrel and magtube extension on his Rem 870, and get a stock of ammo for his pistol shotgun and deer rifle and went shooting with him to show him some defense techniques. The wife has even started exercising and getting in shape, she realized that was necessary if times got hard. This couple I can count on.


    The other neighbor has maybe 3 days of food in her house, a Davis .380 with a box of ammo that she bought with it. When she got it, she asked if I could show her how to shoot it, she shot 5 rounds and gave up after that. She will be a burden in a real SHTF situation, because she possesses little in the way of real skills and does not have a desire to learn them and believes that life will always be the same as it has been.


    I am working not just on my own stores, but trying to help my neighbors and community. In the process I am finding out who can be relied upon and who the excess baggage is. I will help those who can help themselves, because they can help me in the long run. Unfortunately the excessive baggage out numbers the reliable ones by about 7 to 1.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  11. #70
    Ex Member Array Rotorhead84's Avatar
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    He made a good point in the first video. You should really keep "prepping" to yourself. Because he's right, others will remember and come for your stuff.
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  12. #71
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    "how many guns can you shoot? How many bullets you need? Bla..bla...bla...inaudible drunken sentence."

    I dont know how many guns I can shoot, or how many bullets I need, but you can take a good guess on how many Im gonna use when your posse shows up. Though he has a point on communicating with others and teaming up for the numbers sake.

  13. #72
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    Well, you know what they say about opinions- So, let me show you my ^ uh, I mean let me tell you my opinion.

    First, I think guys like the one in the video are the ones that will die first if SHTF.

    Second, taking stuff away from the weak & the elderly who have no way of defending themselves is the only thing people like him are capable of. (Let homey & thugs come to my neck of the woods and they will die before they get within a 1/4 mile.)

    Why do I say that?

    Out here we ALL are family! Even if we aren't related by blood, we will come the the immediate aid of a neighbor. This means when homeboy & his gang pick their first target, there will be a DEFINITE & IMMEDIATE response!


    Third- guys like this are COWARDS! You take away their gats & macs then lay waste to some of they homeboys and they'll mess their drawers & go home crying to Big Mamma!

    Now that you know where I'm coming from, let me tell you how I think things may play out.

    One- BHO is defeated in November & the next POTUS & congress take on "entitlements" & wasteful spending. This causes homeboy & his "gang" to take to the streets in riots, violent protests & burn down business & attack the weak who can't really defend themselves. This will first take place in the urban cities where "entitlement" programs have had the strongest appeal.

    Two- the local LE departments in these areas will quickly be over matched; so the NG will be called out & martial law will be established is "some" areas of the country. This will leave BGs the choice to fight or flee. Some will fight at first. But, eventually they will be forced out of the cities and local LE departments will regain control.

    Third- In some areas of California & the Northeast gangs will move out to the suburbs & take over some neighborhoods. This will embolden some to go on provision & theft raids to more rural areas. However, they will be met with great force & resistance by Billy Ray, Jim Bob, Uncle Zeke, cousin Luther & all our kinfolk.


    (We know how to use our ARs, AKs, deer rifles, & Smiths. Some people out here also have real machine guns & other military grade weapons that we shoot regularly on our farms & at our outdoor ranges.)


    This will result in NG troops patrolling some of the affected rural areas.

    Ultimately, in a few months order will be restored & things will begin to return to some semblance of normality.

    I don't believe that there will be a nationwide SHTF anytime soon. But, I do see some very serious & tense situations coming in 2013! But, I think it will mainly be isolated & contained in and around "sanctuary" cities & strong "entitlement" zones.

    -

  14. #73
    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    Safety in numbers. Intestinal fortitude. It will become very hard, and as other have more eloquently pointed out, natural selection will take over and the strong will survive.
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

  15. #74
    Member Array CPanther95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerberos View Post
    My "redneck stockpile" is a 15000 acre (random number, just think big) collection of family farms, rivers, lakes, woods, etc.
    Agree with everything you said, but I'm highlighting just what's quoted as the jist of what the guy in the video was advocating.

    Aligning with group(s) around you so it is not just a family of 4 or 5 defending your homestead from not only "foreign" threats, but from potential threats all around you. It's much easier to spot a threat coming from one direction knowing that the other 3 sides of your property are "friendly" borders.

    Apparently what prompted the videos was the "Doomsday Preppers" show. And it's true that the focus of that show is families that are preparing almost exclusively to live in isolation - or to leave their urban environment with a well-stocked bug-out bag. The videos pose the questions:

    1) Where are you going to bug out to, and how do you plan to exist beyond the stores in your bag - or are you just assuming that if you make it out of the city, that anyone in Mayberry RFD will take you in?
    2) Do you have enough people to maintain 24/7 defense of your supplies - or to forage for additional supplies?

  16. #75
    Member Array Roon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Also, those who think that just shooting a bunch of people will deter the next group that comes along. I am afraid you underestimate human desperation.
    Then shoot the next group that comes along?

    It has happened time and time again in countries all over the world. Starve a people for long enough and they won't care how many people they loose or how wounded they are. They will keep coming and word will spread that you have something to defend. Many times in places like Russia, Czechoslovakia, any number of African nations, the people chosen to defend the food banks or grain trucks could empty machine guns into the advancing, hungry crowd and it was no deterrent at all. The crowds climbed over their dead, took out the gunners and got their food.
    I don't think we are talking about groups of thousands...you might see groups like that in big cities initially...but if you are still there then you deserve what you get.

    Shooting people as a deterrent will work for a few weeks, maybe even a month or two but when people get really desperate, they won't care how many they have to sacrifice to get a slice of bread.
    Your goal isn't to deter them..its to kill them. They are a threat that needs to be taken out. Take the fight to them instead of waiting. The best defense is a good offense.

    You can also not forget about the people who already have OUTSTANDING organization and skills. Police forces that have banded together, military platoons and special groups who go rogue. They aren't exceptionally good at living off the land and farming, but they can hack it through whatever and are a well-training killing machine. And why go through all of the work of farming and living when you can rove town to town, village to village on stolen gas and goods? These groups will not come marching down the road.. they will sneak up in the grass. They will recon you and your group. They will watch for however long it takes to find your hideout and/or stash. They might even send in a frail female or child to ask for help to report back. Next thing you know you have a ka-bar buried in your gut at 2:34 in the morning and the former army ranger is congratulating himself on the new rifle and ammo he gets to add to his arsenal and maybe even deciding whether or not he should immediately kill your wife.
    Certainly a concern, but I would suggest that the types of folks who typically occupy those roles are of high moral character. Also, I fail to see how a group of citizens is going to defend against a special forces attack on their compound. There are quite a few dead terrorist groups out there that thought they had safety in numbers from those types of guys.

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