Camp ground hassles!
This is a discussion on Camp ground hassles! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This just happened! My wife and I wanted to spend an evening at a local camp ground in a National Forest. We went up to ...
September 30th, 2006 09:44 PM
Camp ground hassles!
This just happened! My wife and I wanted to spend an evening at a local camp ground in a National Forest. We went up to one of our favorite camp grounds and found it open except for another vehicle with 2 men and 2 very large dogs. These 2 guys eventually stumble over and both were obviously drunk. I was carrying my 45 openly and the one guy saw the gun and left after making small talk, The other was very drunk and decided to be a pest. His dog ( part Rot and part Shepard) was walking around and sniffing as dogs do. The drunk kept saying that the dog would try to sniff my wifes and other folks crotches. Well I let that one go by. He then said again about his dog sniffing her crotch and then said If " If I tried to sniff your wife's crotch you would probably shoot me". I really had a hard time maintaining my cool and just said that I would not try to do something so stupid and I invited him to leave. There were no other folks at the camp ground so discretion being the better part of valor I told the wife to pack up and we had to leave. This was the only thing that I could think of to do. Staying may have invited trouble and I could not see jeopardizing my wifes safety for anything.
Your thoughts are appreciated of course. I can tell you that I am glad that I am packing!
September 30th, 2006 09:57 PM
Not sure what your looking for here. You did the right thing, leaving was the best thing you could have done. A drunk is a drunk and it will and would have probably gotten worse if you had stayed. The only other thing I would have done is call a ranger to let them know about it so they could check up further with them.
I had a good friend and neighbor like this. Great guy sober, but a real jerk when drunk. I kicked him hard to the curb many times do to his lack of manors, drunks never learn and neither did he.
Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!
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September 30th, 2006 10:14 PM
VIP Member (Retired Staff)
Well - the deterrant of carry most likely helped initially but your best decision then was to leave. Definitely a ''stay cool'' situation.
Dipsticks like that are a potential loose cannon. Oh and yes as Ti mentioned, reporting them to a ranger or ranger's office would have been useful perhaps.
Know what really yanks my chain with drunks?? The way some get all aggressive when drunk and then after claim - ''oh it wasn't me - it was the drink''.
Boloney I say - I will NOT excuse anyone's behavior just because of drink. The individual is culpable in whatever state.
Chris - P95
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September 30th, 2006 10:17 PM
With all my experience with drunks, I must say, I don't like them anymore. When I was younger, I thought they were funny, now they are just annoying. I would have left after telling the rangers why.
September 30th, 2006 10:23 PM
We called the Forest Service to report it and got a recorded message. I guess cut backs prohibit them from keeping anyone on duty. My gut feeling was to leave, and my real lesson here was listen to my gut. I guess I coud have called the sheriff but any way you look at it, we're talking hours for anyone to arrive, while local to us it is a pretty remote camp ground.
September 30th, 2006 11:01 PM
Instant ***hole - Just add alcohol.
Originally Posted by Ti Carry
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September 30th, 2006 11:19 PM
Sounds like you did the prudent thing, looking after the safety of you and yours.
EOD - Initial success or total failure
September 30th, 2006 11:27 PM
Good call. Uncertain if your state requires a duty to retreat, but you satisfied the moral dilemma there. You certainly took the defensive posture by leaving. Had SHTF, it would have been a clear case of aggression by the others. Safety first, always. Prudence first, always. Good call, I think. With the facts you've provided, it's about what I would have done, as well.
Originally Posted by timothius
October 1st, 2006 12:01 AM
Yeah, you definitely did the right thing. I don't think I would have been carrying in the open with anybody around. The presence of a gun can dramatically de-escalate a confrontation like that. But to see it in advance removes the "surprise factor" and let's them get used to it. Then they start thinking like they're tougher than your gun and it comes down to a Shoot me...I dare you...you've haven't got the guts.... Which is a lose-lose scenario all the way around. What's worse is that a drunk doesn't really feel pain...hence the definition Feeling no pain... But you could snap a drunk's leg and he might not scream until the next morning....So if you're forced to take one on....it's got to be the light's OUT..cranio-ocular shot or thru the eyeball. Better to avoid in the first place. The other possibility is to have a backup DE-esclator...like a 12 ga pump. That distinctive sound.....Raaaaat--CHUNK!! so reinforced by Hollywood.... can make somebody cold sober in a moment.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; NRA Endowment Life; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
October 1st, 2006 12:07 AM
First of all, I wouldnt have let some drunk fool ruin the whole trip.
I dang sure wouldnt have left.
He was warning you about his dog. That was not a mistake, he was simply being courteous in telling you what to expect. You should have simply told him to put the dog up...it IS against regulations to let animals free roam in campsites. I would have brought this to his attention and told him that his dog sniffing at my wifes crotch would not have been tolerated.
No threats, no aggresive posturing, just state the facts and let him figure the rest out.
Letting some punk azz drunk run you out of the campsite is a crock of baloney.The LAW is on your side. A simple phone call coulld have them at least run off or even had them arrested for public drunkeness. At the very least they would have been told to out the dog up.
Yeilding to drunks IS NOT the right rock. These idiots need to be dealt with accordingly, not just given free rein to do as they please.
Others here may not agree. As one that deals with drunks occasionally, I have little tolerance for stupidity. Personally, I think you need to stand up to them, and not let them dictate what you are going to stay or not stay.
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October 1st, 2006 12:36 AM
Ti Carry hit it right on the head!!!!!
October 1st, 2006 01:01 AM
One thing for sure, it wasn't going to get any better! I think you did the right thing especially since the law doesn't allow varment hunting in National Forest!
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
October 1st, 2006 01:14 AM
Tim, I think you exercised the best choice available.
Lousy, rotten unfortunate situation.
While, emotionally, I somewhat agree with Hotguns "I wouldnt have let some drunk fool ruin the whole trip. I dang sure wouldnt have left."...
However I think the trip was already ruined. Whether you put him in his place, or left, he already stunk up the site. If you shut him down, via LEO or standing your ground, I doubt if you or your wife would have had a good night's sleep.
Oftentimes, a graceful exit is the best choice.
October 1st, 2006 01:47 AM
October 1st, 2006 01:48 AM
+1 for you.
We should be committed to a life of deescalation and avoidance. The trip would have sucked with you worrying about them sitting in the woods plotting. Two drunks with only one thing to focus on is bad news in any situation. Whether you were mad or not(and I would be mad) makes no difference, you were right to leave. If I feel bad about a situation it's time to leave. This is the best chance you have to protect you and yours.
The Problem: When stupid people do stupid things, smart people end up getting killed.
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