Live to Live

This is a discussion on Live to Live within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I agree that this is a good post and topic. But if the goal is to keep yourself and family safe I would suggest locking ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array nhcruffler's Avatar
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    I agree that this is a good post and topic. But if the goal is to keep yourself and family safe I would suggest locking the car door ( pup inside) and escorting the family members & friend into the burger joint. I would also have told the confused hitch hiker to move on down the road and contacted law enforcement. Inviting disoriented strangers ( especially very large ones ) into your home is generally not advisable.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhcruffler View Post
    I agree that this is a good post and topic. But if the goal is to keep yourself and family safe I would suggest locking the car door ( pup inside) and escorting the family members & friend into the burger joint. I would also have told the confused hitch hiker to move on down the road and contacted law enforcement. Inviting disoriented strangers ( especially very large ones ) into your home is generally not advisable.
    I didn't invite him into my home. He sat outside and I never took my eyes off of him.

    There will be varying opinions about how the 'big guy' situation should or should not be handled. I want to help people in need, but I want to do it in a way that does not compromise the safety of my family. I was able to accomplish both with the big guy situation.

    Each situation has to be assessed. While our actions must be situation driven, there will be many situations where we can do more than turn someone in need away, and other situations where we assess that it would be too risky and simply extract ourselves as safely as we can.
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  4. #18
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    Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
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  5. #19
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    This was a good post. And it illustrates exactly what I do not want my life to become. Sure I'm as careful as I can be, I observe my surroundings, and when I'm working I employ a great deal of the items listed in the OP. But it seems that at times we get so concerned with making sure we live that we forget to LIVE. Taking note of your environment, being suspicious of strangers, I'm on board with all of that. But if I don't want to get to the point where I feel like I have to clear corners in order to go to Applebees. I don't want to be thinking every moment that someone could be trying to follow me down the road and be using a team of individuals to do so. At some point I guess I decided that being able to be happy and live under less stress was important to me.

    So, when I next visit the range I'll leave, stop on the way home for a cherry coke, and go on back to the house. If MI6 is trailing me, there's really not much I can do about it any way.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    ....And it illustrates exactly what I do not want my life to become. Sure I'm as careful as I can be, I observe my surroundings, and when I'm working I employ a great deal of the items listed in the OP. But it seems that at times we get so concerned with making sure we live that we forget to LIVE.
    Not true at all. We make that a way of life, not some burden of life. That's the problem I see all too often, we think being alert is such a big deal that we can't have fun living our lives - the two are not mutually exclusive.

    The alternative to living in awareness, is not being aware. What are the consequences? Living in awareness generally eliminates the unexpected. Having fun and enjoying life without awareness can lead to tragedy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    ....Taking note of your environment, being suspicious of strangers, I'm on board with all of that. But if I don't want to get to the point where I feel like I have to clear corners in order to go to Applebees.
    The way to 'avoid' is to be aware, and to take actions based on awareness. E.g. it is not enough to be aware that you are about to sit with your back to a door, we need to be aware and act, in this case choose another chair. Continuous training in our everyday lives helps us be aware.

    It should be beneficial to practice SD principles and tactics 'as we go'? We should practice in the environment we live in. We don't have to be obvious about it, but typically I look before I go; I scan; I may not pie corners per se, but I do swing wide on corners - not only is that good SD, but it's also a part of office safety to prevent people collisions. People collisions occur in work places because two people coming in opposite directions approach a corner too tight and by the time they see each other, they've walked into each other. That just doesn't happen when you don't 'cut corners'.

    I don't sit with my back to doors in public places. I try to pick a position that is tactically advantageous. I guess that all sounds extreme, but do we really want to sit with our back to a door if we get to make the call? Since we have to decide where we want to sit, is it any harder to pick a point that has an advantage to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    ....I don't want to be thinking every moment that someone could be trying to follow me down the road and be using a team of individuals to do so.
    Who does want to think someone would be trying to follow them? But this comes from what has happened rather than what could happen. Most Americans are too busy to give much thought to personal safety - until it happens to them. Then they get awareness conscious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    ....At some point I guess I decided that being able to be happy and live under less stress was important to me.
    Well the two are not mutually exclusive. I'm a very aware person and hope to become more consistent as I practice awareness techniques - I'm also a very happy person.

    A lot of people would find your statement puzzling. I mean you imply happiness is free of 'stress' of person safety, yet you carry a gun???? How stressful would that be to most Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    ....So, when I next visit the range I'll leave, stop on the way home for a cherry coke, and go on back to the house. If MI6 is trailing me, there's really not much I can do about it any way.
    I guess I don't know what MI6 is? What I was referring to was about common thieves following someone so they could break in their home when the owner is out. And I pointed out that they could use multiple cars and cell phones to do the following. Sooo, those of us that enjoy 'outsmarting' the would be thieves can be aware of some tactics that they might use.

    But, sure we can over do things. Most Americans think people that carry guns are way over doing it. My goal is to have a gun if all else fails. I just want to be as diligent at awareness and avoidance as reasonable.

    It's important to determine if it's the awareness per se that is causing the unhappiness or if it's the reason we need to be aware is what's causing the unhappiness.
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  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    One of the things not usually mentioned about SA is the odd things you will notice. The paper boy throwing the neighbors paper along the side window of a house down the street. [ this turned out to be because the neighbor was wheelchair bound and could retrieve it easiest from there. I had to ask.] Or the odd guy talking to his pocket, it turned out he had a puppy in there. Now the dog is grown but still rides in his pocket. So being aware is not all stress, its kind of fun! DR

  8. #22
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    I dunno, the minute you have to 'crack open the door' to see who's there, you've lost. All that money spent on guns and training (implied) but cant get a door with a window or peephole?

    Sorry, I just scanned and that jumped out at me. That and the assumption that 'we all want to help people.'
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  9. #23
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    It's human nature to help people if you're not out to hurt them. The Golden Rule. The big guy Tangle helped might've been a good guy having a medical emergency. Negative impressions that trigger biases against odd behavior blown up in the mind as an unacceptable risk to safety deprive one of some opportunity to human response and a better community.
    Tangle moved through the situation by knowing where the danger is highest and knowing how to monitor and manage the risk intelligently. This shows a higher level of training and of living than shooting and moving and scanning, though I agree about the peephole.
    As I said in my earlier post, I live in a downtown village. I just got certified for Mental Health First Aid. I'm supposed to identify a mental health crisis, assess for risk of harm (to self or others), and engage the victim to mitigate risk and to encourage the earliest and best help.
    I think Tangle's point is that there is a way to live like a civilized human being that includes the intelligent management of risk.
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  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Well written thread but it could have been said with just 2 letters---SA. Period/end of story. I do not care how much "defense" you are carrying, if you cannot use some common sense in today's America, it will do you no good.
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  11. #25
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    Thanks Pistology, for explaining "pieing". Never thought of that before. Tangle, you do appear to me to be somewhat paranoid. Maybe that's not a bad thing. I think there is a time and place for extra measures of caution. But not necessarily everywhere.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I dunno, the minute you have to 'crack open the door' to see who's there, you've lost. All that money spent on guns and training (implied) but cant get a door with a window or peephole?

    Sorry, I just scanned and that jumped out at me. That and the assumption that 'we all want to help people.'
    You know what a peephole in a door does? It centers your head on a target point and puts you square in front of the door. Is that really where you want to be?

    All is not lost when you crack the door. Very little of me is exposed. The security door complete with bars is still closed and locked, and yes I expected the security door to all ready be breached as I cracked the door and I was ready to respond to that. The person is in porch light, I'm in the dark. I'm behind 2 x 4's, they're completely unconcealed.

    But let's take the peephole approach and we see a woman with some blood on her screaming her child is in a wrecked car seriously injured. Now what do we do?
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Well written thread but it could have been said with just 2 letters---SA. Period/end of story. I do not care how much "defense" you are carrying, if you cannot use some common sense in today's America, it will do you no good.
    Two letters, SA, is not understood as it should be by all. Examples help us understand how to respond when our SA detects something.

    Plus, SA doesn't explain the many forms traps can come in.
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  14. #28
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    Good post but taken to the nth degree prohibits anyone from enjoying themselves. In the scenarios there is basically no time in your life outside your home you are not scanning for dangers. Of course we look and sense for danger all the time as part of instinct and common sense. I think this sums it up best:
    While we can’t live in complete paranoia, I’ve found I can come pretty close.
    I don't live in paranioa. To live means to live. Just like jumping out of an airplane. You do your checks but have fun. A gentleman use to post a one page post on what to do when you are in a parking lot. I don't go shopping iin downtown Fallujah. Common sense and SA seems to do thr trick for me.

    There have been times I have stopped and helped someone out under conditions where some folks would not because it did not meet "their safety threshold". It is OK to trust your instincts sometimes. Not everyperson that comes up to you to asks a question is a BG. In fact, most are noot
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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldnfat View Post
    Thanks Pistology, for explaining "pieing". Never thought of that before. Tangle, you do appear to me to be somewhat paranoid. Maybe that's not a bad thing. I think there is a time and place for extra measures of caution. But not necessarily everywhere.
    How does one know where the places are he needs to use caution and when he doesn't? Can I let down my guard in Lowe's? There were two people shot to death in a Lowe's not too long ago. Can I let down my guard in the Walmart parking lot? There have been a couple of people mugged in local Walmarts here.

    But the greater point is not necessarily becoming about becoming paranoid, but taking advantage of continual training opportunities in one's own environment. Whether we realize it or not, we are continually training. We are either training to become more aware and visualizing how we would respond to situations we see everyday, or we are training to not be aware.

    I and three friends were having a sandwich in a hoagie shop and a complete stranger walked up to us and started talking about a controversial subject. Here's an awareness opportunity. I took my drink cup in my off hand and stood up as if to be getting a refill. I immediately, but subtly positioned myself so I could see the opposite direction from where the guy was. That accomplished two things, one, I am now mobile and in a defensive position, and two, I can now see if someone would be approaching from the opposite direction. It turned out he was just sharing a joke.

    So was that paranoia, or was it an opportunity to practice SA and respond to it? Was any harm done by my actions? None whatsoever. Was I less happy because I wasn't completely unaware and suspected nothing as the stranger approached? No, I was happy that I recognized the opportunity and what could have been a threat.

    So if that's paranoia, I like it. It just might save my life via evasion.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    This was a good post. And it illustrates exactly what I do not want my life to become. Sure I'm as careful as I can be, I observe my surroundings, and when I'm working I employ a great deal of the items listed in the OP. But it seems that at times we get so concerned with making sure we live that we forget to LIVE. Taking note of your environment, being suspicious of strangers, I'm on board with all of that. But if I don't want to get to the point where I feel like I have to clear corners in order to go to Applebees. I don't want to be thinking every moment that someone could be trying to follow me down the road and be using a team of individuals to do so. At some point I guess I decided that being able to be happy and live under less stress was important to me.

    So, when I next visit the range I'll leave, stop on the way home for a cherry coke, and go on back to the house. If MI6 is trailing me, there's really not much I can do about it any way.
    Living your life in condition Orange would suck in my opinion. I'm 68 years old and so far so good... I think I will keep it at condition Yellow for now.

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