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Live to Live

This is a discussion on Live to Live within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 9MMare While I don't recommend 'only a peephole,' an understanding of its advantages and limitations gives the homeowner the upper hand. It ...

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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    While I don't recommend 'only a peephole,' an understanding of its advantages and limitations gives the homeowner the upper hand. It is better than nothing. Cracking a door or looking thru a window doesn't guarantee no additional bodies in ambush.
    I understand. To me a peephole is a self-inflicted trap. It simply centers the person in the doorway. I've been to bunches of training schools and while they all have variations on how to go through a doorway, they all agree that one should never center himself on an open doorway or a closed door. A peephole does that. Also, the BG knows there's a peephole and what do they expect you to do? Look through the peephole.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    ...As for the screaming, bleeding woman scenario...we have to plan for that no matter what our 'visual vantage point' is. Don't we?
    We don't have to plan for that, but we should! That's what this thread is about - seeing everyday experiences as potential threats instead of giving no thought to the possibility at all.

    A peephole has such a limited view, about all one would see is what's right in front of the peephole. So unless the person you can see through the peephole is standing there with a gun, one may get a false sense of security. You still don't know what's out there, and again, you're standing exactly where the BG would expect you to be.

    When you crack the door, you will not be visible to the person, you will be behind several thicknesses of 2x4s and boards, and even if they charge the door, you are off the line of attack and if they charge through the door, you will be behind them with them having no idea where you are.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Tangle: This is half joking and half serious in realtion to this qoute :

    OK, you are teaching a class to 15 or 20 people about all of the things in your OP. Now, as a group you decide to go to lunch at Denny's. Where do you all sit?
    I think this assumes that we can only sit with our backs to the door or facing the door. That's not the only options. Just because we don't sit with our back to the door, doesn't mean we have to sit facing the door. We can sit so that we have a view of the door via peripheral vision. Sitting with a door at our 3:00 or 9:00 position is a lot better than sitting with our back to it.

    But that raises an interesting question too. If one has a choice would one rather have the door to his left or right? For a right handed person, he'd have an advantage with the door to his left. His body would conceal a draw if necessary, he would have an advantage in extension to the left over extending to the right. Give it a try.

    Also, given the scenario, where there are 15 to 20 people with you that have just learned about doors, it's much less of a problem. Even if half of them have to sit with their backs to the door, the other half are sitting facing or at least have a view of the door(s). E.g. doors on opposite sides of the area. Half the group is facing one door, half is facing the opposite door. Tactics/response is driven by the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu
    ...Don't get me wrong. I do a lot of SA but to me it is natural and I know there are lapses.
    Why is SA natural to you? Were you born that way??? No, of course not. SA is natural to you because you practiced it until it became the norm for you. And that is exactly what I meant by "Live to Live" and exactly what I am trying to make people aware of.

    But, hey, I have lapses too. I come out of near trance-like states where I've become so focused on some work problem I'm not sure where I am, much less what's going on around me. Lapses do happen, but we need to strive to not let lapses happen when we need to be aware and alert.
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  3. #48
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    Tangle:
    But that raises an interesting question too. If one has a choice would one rather have the door to his left or right? For a right handed person, he'd have an advantage with the door to his left. His body would conceal a draw if necessary, he would have an advantage in extension to the left over extending to the right. Give it a try.
    In bold: Thanks for the advice but I am pretty comfy with my own skill set I reaaly don't care how paraniod or not folks are. That is becasue it is so subjective. I mentioned a gentleman here that use to post what he does when he exits a Walmart and going to his car. The dar thing was longer than the op order for Operation Overload! (D-Day) That was only a page and a half.

    Just my unparaniod opinion you do not need to be constantly coming up with "what would I do" exercises when out going about your day. If, like you, do it because it is fun like doing a crossword puzzle then cool. I do it when I am bored, not as a everyday every situation event.

    If I played it safe and went by the odds I would not have done what I did in the military for so long, neither would I be a skydiving instructor. What ever float people boats.

    Now, I will post a scenario here soon because I do try to figure out scenarios in certain situations.

    Stay safe and paraniod!
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...In bold: Thanks for the advice but I am pretty comfy with my own skill set
    That wasn't meant just for you. I thought others might benefit from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...Just my unparaniod opinion you do not need to be constantly coming up with "what would I do" exercises when out going about your day...
    That's true - nobody has said we need to. This thread is about bringing people to an awareness of being aware of their everyday environment. Some think SA is enough. It isn't; it's part of the picture. Another part is understanding how to respond to a situation once our awareness has disclosed it.

    The examples in my OP were not what ifs, they were my actual responses to real situations. But the actions I took were largely based on awareness and training both formal and what iffing in my every day life.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...If I played it safe and went by the odds I would not have done what I did in the military for so long, neither would I be a skydiving instructor. What ever float people boats.
    But you carry a gun, right? Always or just 50% of the time? And yet the probability of you needing a gun for SD is astronomically small, yet you carry one.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...Stay safe and paraniod!
    Well, I think you really said that in humor and in a good way, but let me re-address the paranoia issue. Do you carry a gun? By the vast majority of Americans, would that be paranoid? You betcha, even alarmingly so to many Americans.

    But, SD advocates base their decisions on violence in America, even at places like Lowe's, Walmarts, schools, churches, in the car and in the home, etc. That's not paranoia - that's responding to real events.
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  5. #50
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    But you carry a gun, right? Always or just 50% of the time? And yet the probability of you needing a gun for SD is astronomically small, yet you carry one.
    Yes I do and not 100 percent of the time. I do not carry at home and I do not carry running. Yup, 100 percent of home invasions happen at home and yup, 100 percent on joggers happen to joggers. But here is the deal. Instead of playing out every scenario imaginable (which I stated I do not care what others do) I do a risk assessment. The odds of a male jogger being assualted are so low it is ridiculus. Now of course folks will at this point bring up that it does happen. But seriously, I weigh the odds of being assualted running vs the weight and discomfort of carrying (I run 8-22 miles a day depending) and I choose not to carry. I am also real good at H2H.
    But, SD advocates base their decisions on violence in America, even at places like Lowe's, Walmarts, schools, churches, in the car and in the home, etc. That's not paranoia - that's responding to real events.
    Of course you have to look around you and stay abreast of what is going on in the world. But that does not mean I check out every single person I meet and assess if they are a danger. (OK, sub conciously we all do...we are more leary of a begger in an ally than we are a man in a suit in an office). But that is just normal SA. I really don't give a hoot abut random events. You do not know what is going to happen, when it is going to happen, or the conditions of which it might happen, and the abiility of your foe(s).
    Well, I think you really said that in humor
    Yes it was in humor. Like I said before, I don't give a hoot about how others run their lives. Just wish folks would return that gesture. Too many folks here are critical of folks that do not meet there guidlines and procedures for SD. They insult people or call them naive for not carrying 24/7 or act is if the Walmart is in downtown Fallujah. Tha is what bugs me is when folks try to judge the abilites of others and their practices. Of course I act differently in a "bad" neighborhood than I do in a "good" neighborhood. Bad things happen in both. BUt we have to use risk assessment our instincts.
    Some folks here are so wound up about SD that they will not take their kids to Disney World or other fun places because they do not allow weapons. That is theri choice, not mine.

    And I did say that it was a nice OP....just when it is longer than the op order for the invasion of a continent...........
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...But here is the deal. Instead of playing out every scenario imaginable (which I stated I do not care what others do) I do a risk assessment.
    Nobody but you has said anything about playing out every imaginable scenario. I posted examples of actual responses to real events, not imaginable scenarios. Then I gave some examples of what I consider safe practices when making decisions about where I sit, how I deal with strangers approaching me. Those are not imaginable either, they are a course of action I take, not what ifs.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...The odds of a male jogger being assualted are so low it is ridiculus.
    About the same as needing a gun to defend oneself???

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...I am also real good at H2H.
    Me too, right up to the point where there is more than one assailant or I discover I've brought H2H to a knife and/or club fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...But that does not mean I check out every single person I meet and assess if they are a danger. ... (OK, sub conciously we all do...
    I check out every person I meet. I give some more attention than others. You do that too I see, you just do it at a subconscious level.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ... (OK, sub conciously we all do...
    No, we all don't assess at a subconscious level. Many SDers don't at a conscious level. The whole purpose of this thread was to encourage readers to become more aware and formulate responses to situations in their minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...we are more leary of a begger in an ally than we are a man in a suit in an office).
    Why are you in alleys in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...But that is just normal SA.
    SA is far more than assessing between a man in an alley and a man in a suit in the office.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...I really don't give a hoot abut random events. You do not know what is going to happen, when it is going to happen, or the conditions of which it might happen, and the abiility of your foe(s).
    What's a random event and why do you even bring it up since we're not talking about random events? We're talking about things that occur frequently and normally in our everyday lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...Just wish folks would return that gesture. Too many folks here are critical of folks that do not meet there guidlines and procedures for SD.
    Well, first why do you even think this thread is all about you? Do you really think this thread/topic is to determine if you meet somebody's guidelines and procedures??? Talk about paranoid.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...They insult people or call them naive for not carrying 24/7
    That has nothing to do with this thread or topic. There hasn't been a single mention about carrying 24/7 except to point out that if one carries a gun that would be perceived by the majority of Americans as being paranoid.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...or act is if the Walmart is in downtown Fallujah.
    You're fabricating. Nobody said any such thing. I said people have been shot in those places. You know what? Nobody got up that morning and said hey, I bet somebody is gonna be shot in Lowe's today, but they were. We recently had a shooting in a Walmart parking lot. There's no need to trivialize reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...Tha is what bugs me is when folks try to judge the abilites of others and their practices. Of course I act differently in a "bad" neighborhood than I do in a "good" neighborhood. Bad things happen in both. BUt we have to use risk assessment our instincts.
    Again, this isn't just about you, there are a lot of others reading this and benefiting from it. And nobody is judging you in any way, well not publicly anyway.

    You seem to be taking this as if everything is directed at you personally, it isn't. I have addressed some of your comments and even agreed that one doesn't have to do what ifs with every situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...Some folks here are so wound up about SD that they will not take their kids to Disney World or other fun places because they do not allow weapons. That is theri choice, not mine.
    You're right, that is their choice. And it's not a condemnation of you and your practices like you seem to think it is. When someone expresses what they think about SD, it doesn't mean they are saying you need to change your ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ...And I did say that it was a nice OP....just when it is longer than the op order for the invasion of a continent...........
    You might want to check out the LIKEs to the OP and see if you are in the majority or minority.

    I'm not sure why, but you seem to think this is some kind of disrespect to you and your 'skill set'. Rest assured it isn't.

    This was posted to give SD oriented people some things to think about. It is intended not only to make people more mindful of how aware they are as they go about their day, but also to challenge them to give some thought to possible responses to situations that their awareness discloses. A plan ahead vs make no plans. If they realize there are some things they could be doing better then that's great.

    There have been some interesting things discussed/debated that obviously don't apply to you.
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  7. #52
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    Excellent thread, Tangle, excellent.
    Rock and Glock likes this.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  8. #53
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    @Tangle: I will just be quiet. I understood your post and evidently mine did not come across the way I wanted. Let me just say you have your way of living and I have mine. Neither is better than the other. Just a lifestyle based on experience and abilities. And no......I have never felt insutled about what folks think of my abilities.
    I never thought the thread was about me. I personally don't give a hoot about other people thoughts and opinions

    I will in the future try to not bring up anything that can be construed as "being about me".

    I tried to make it perfectly clear that I thought it was a good post and tried to put a little humor into my post. Evidently I need more work on my emoticons.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Good food for thought. Let me add the drink.

    If you are truly concerned about personal safety, stay away from bars, and places where alcohol induced people drink too much. If you like to have a drink, stay home and do it!
    Yeah, I don't like crowds, especially the noisey types, and it's always five o'clock somewhere.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Why is SA natural to you? Were you born that way??? No, of course not. SA is natural to you because you practiced it until it became the norm for you. And that is exactly what I meant by "Live to Live" and exactly what I am trying to make people aware of.

    But, hey, I have lapses too. I come out of near trance-like states where I've become so focused on some work problem I'm not sure where I am, much less what's going on around me. Lapses do happen, but we need to strive to not let lapses happen when we need to be aware and alert.
    The statement you quoted was not mine, I'm not sure how it ended up being attributed to me.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    The statement you quoted was not mine, I'm not sure how it ended up being attributed to me.
    Please accept my apology 9MMare; I'm not sure how that happened. I wanted to reply to several posts and I must have got mixed up somehow. I corrected the error in the post.
    I'm too young to be this old!
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Please accept my apology 9MMare; I'm not sure how that happened. I wanted to reply to several posts and I must have got mixed up somehow. I corrected the error in the post.
    No harm, no foul
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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