Shooting to stop kidnapping

This is a discussion on Shooting to stop kidnapping within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I can't really answer the question as written because I cannot remember being outside my home with only a snub at any time in several ...

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Thread: Shooting to stop kidnapping

  1. #31
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    I can't really answer the question as written because I cannot remember being outside my home with only a snub at any time in several years. So in my world I'm going to be answering with a Glock 23 because that is by far the most likely gun to be on my person.

    When I saw the situation I'd be closing distance and yelling, gun in hand. The first shots would hopefully come before my child was actually in the car. I'd give the BG every opportunity to change his mind and let her go. There is no question that one magazine would be empty before I even thought about returning to my vehicle to give chase. If the initial volley didn't somehow stop the situation I'd be heading back to my vehicle cussing myself for having a big slow vehicle and likely for not having a red dot on the pistol. (Every day I think more and more that it is time but until the department agrees I can't see having two different systems in my life. We're getting there though.)

    If my H3 managed to keep up there's going to be one heck of a collision as soon as I get the chance. The two inside are highly unlikely to live to tell anyone their side of the story unless a miracle takes place and my anger somehow disappears. Unlike Miamieddie I'm not going to just leave. As soon as you do that you've ensured a nice stay in prison. Instead I'm going to take my chances in a court of law and hope that I get a jury sympathetic to my belief that I did exactly what a reasonable person in the same situation would do.
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  3. #32
    Member Array CPanther95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Curious..those that said they will shoot:is that because you actually think the car will stop? (chances are very slim) Or you think it would take too long to get into your vehicle or a neighbors and give chase?

    I do not think anyone here so far has had the intention of doing nothing.
    I'm picturing the car having to pass me to leave the neighborhood. If they're already heading away from me, you'd have no choice but to get in a vehicle asap. If they are coming toward me, yes, I would shoot. Not at the car, but at the driver. You hit him in the head and yes, the car will stop. If he's only two houses down, he's not going to be at high speed by the time you close distance on each other. I like my chances of getting reasonably close to sticking my muzzle right up against the driver's side window and getting a few shots off as he's passing me. Then I'll get in my 426 hp Camaro and close the distance if the gun didn't stop him.

    Do you think not shooting will stop the car? (chances are very, very slim)

  4. #33
    Member Array jwinston's Avatar
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    They way my road is laid out you must come back past my house to get out. You can bet if they did manage to "get away" and turn in the cul de sac then I will be waiting with my land yacht of a truck blocking the road ( its easy to back out of my short driveway.) At this point I am going to kill them, I will not waver, you will not reason with me. Im going cold blooded killer. No mercy, no begging. I dont care at this point. Let a jury decide my actions if need be. But you can bet they will not stain the gene pool with their existence again. If they do get by then, Im using my said land yacht that CAN and will catch up to them. I will not let that car leave my sight while on the phone. Then they can pray the cops stop them before I do. Im not above carrying out executions on the side of the road.
    The Old Anglo likes this.

  5. #34
    New Member Array ranch23's Avatar
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    And start carrying a bigger gun..... and by the way I think a lot of us are to the point of maybe you're NOT going to jail easily.

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranch23 View Post
    ..... and by the way I think a lot of us are to the point of maybe you're NOT going to jail easily.
    Not a smart way to be talking.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    If it was my family member, and I had my hand gun on me....and at home that's not likely, just putting that out there, my decision...I would aim ALL my shots on one particular target instead of trying for driver, fuel tank, windows, etc. I would focus all my shots at the tires. Not only would it concentrate my fire and increase the odds of hitting one, it would limit hitting any innocent bystanders, homes, etc. I said 'limit', not 'prevent.' I am still responsible for the lives of others even while trying to save those of my family.

    More likely is I'll have to go inside, get carkeys and firearm, then try and chase while myself or others are calling 911.

    BTW, I do practice moving and shooting. Dont get to practice shooting moving targets tho.
    Fortune favors the bold.

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  8. #37
    Member Array Cook74's Avatar
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    Best to be judged by 12 then have a kid carried by 6...

    I would not jeopardize my daughters life shooting at the driver, I would shoot at the tires and maybe the drivers door. 19 +1 ought to hit something...

    If I caught them, I would shoot them between the legs and then call 911. That way, they can be prison whores and not active participants...
    Doug;}
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    I prefer to be judged by 12 then carried by 6

  9. #38
    Member Array Cook74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post

    BTW, I do practice moving and shooting. Dont get to practice shooting moving targets tho.

    Maybe there is something to skeet shooting after all?
    Doug;}
    RSO, WA. XDMc 9mm, S&W 642CT & 442 38 sp, 1947 Savage 99 300,
    1972 Marlin 336 RC .35, 1922 Walther Model 4, 1933 Walther DSM 34, High Standard 1954 22LR

    I prefer to be judged by 12 then carried by 6

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cook74 View Post
    Maybe there is something to skeet shooting after all?
    My neice just started this. But she's on the east coast. I wouldnt mind at all but dont really have anyone to do it with.

    OTOH, I am used to running hard on a horse and aiming!

    *sigh* one only has so much time to spend on training/fun stuff. I devote my shooting training to short-range defensive (like IDPA).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #40
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cook74 View Post
    Maybe there is something to skeet shooting after all?
    I was just thinking how much fun trying to shoot skeet with a handgun would be. Or to catch a bunch of pigeons or starlings and release several at once.

    But, where do the bullets go? Whee. All over the place.

  12. #41
    Member Array Spovik's Avatar
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    Several things:

    1. My 2yo daughter is the reason I decided to start arming my home and myself concealed
    2. My state statues explicitly list kidnapping as a valid reason to use deadly force in it's statutes.
    3. We hear enough about what happens to kidnapped young girls that I'll be doing everything possible to prevent it as long as it doesn't jeopardize her life in doing so.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnmbrewing View Post
    Well if the car is driving away I am aiming for fuel tank and tires and rear window. Rear window busted out makes ID much easier for LEO. If I am lucky enough to hit the tires the car is not going far. Fuel tank hit will also limit distance the car can travel and it will leave a trail to follow. I am also hoping the neighbors are calling 911 for shots fired which should get LEO en route in a hurry.

    Now if the car is coming at me first shots are at the radiator then if enough time drivers outline in the windshield. Again thinking disable the car. Even if I don't stop the car now they will not get far with holes in the radiator. Most likely the car is alreay hot so radiator will empty in a hurry and motor will stop in a few minutes. There will be a trail of fluid to follow that way. From there they had better hope the LEO finds them. It will not end well for them if I get to there first with a fresh mag.

    All this sounds good typing this. As to my actual ability to hit the tires or fuel tank of a car moving away from me at some distance greater than 30 yards with my heartrate through the roof from running and the adreneline dump, not totally sure. Being able to hit the radiator may be easier but again standing in front of a car speeding toward me....Lucky for me all my kids are older. Now if it is a neighbor hood kid it makes this whole situation a lot more difficult. How do you know what is going on is what you think is going on? If its your kids you know they don't belong in that car. Neighbors kids...not so sure.
    I agree with your action, with some minor caveats.

    Fuel tank, do you know where the fuel tank is located on the model car they are driving? Is it between frame channels? is it forward of the filler tube or rearward? how high up inot the body?

    Radiator, I have seen demo derby cars have there lower radiator hose ripped completely off and they still ran for 15 minutes? Thats a demo car that is not cruising at speed where the cooling effect of the air rushing through the radiator will keep cooling the car. Its backing up, pushing against another car. How far can a car get in fifteen minutes? How many turns have they made? Which direction are they heading? Hopefully it's not raining out and you may be able to follow the antifreeze trail, maybe.

    Tires, I don't know, someone else posted here that they have seen a tire shot fail to blow out a tire. My daughter actually managed to drive 3 miles on two blown our tires. Again, how many turns to lose you can they make in three miles?

    I think taking out the driver is a better solution. Hopefully they have thrown the daughter down onto the floor, or down on the seat so she is lower than the drivers head. I also know from this web site;

    The Box O' Truth - The Buick O' Truth #2 - Windshields Outside/In - Page 1

    that auto glass deflects a bullet down, not upward like you would think so I am aiming for the forehead, hoping for a CNS shot thru the area of the eyes. I carry a 40 caliber so the deflection appears to be about 2-1/2 inches.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Any of you shooters that are aiming for the driver think about your frantic daughter that has been pushed into the back seat?


    Wonder where she's going to be in relation to the driver when the rounds enter a moving container she is currently moving around in..............
    North Carolina Concealed Handgun Permit Instructor
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  15. #44
    Member Array Nebraska12's Avatar
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    I don't think I would be so quick to start shooting. Probably give chase from a good safe distance, if I had opportunity to get to my truck, and memorize everything. I could to be a good witness without making things immediately worse for my daughter. Who's to say the BGs wouldn't over react to your gunfire and take it out on her just to get away?

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  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Where is your car? Do you have your keys with you? Realisticaly sitting here nice and calm behind a keyboard I would say to immediatly get to your car and give chase (and hopefully you got the car description).
    +1!

    My thoughts exactly. Giving chase in your car gives you many more options and the car is a more powerful weapon.
    Ben

    Cogito, ergo armatum sum. I think, therefore I am armed. (Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)


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