Unarmed with active shooter, two exits

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Thread: Unarmed with active shooter, two exits

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Unarmed with active shooter, two exits

    You are in a gymnasium listening to a speaker on the attributes of gun control laws. It is the size of a gym with a basketball court and 6 nets. You are in the first row with wife and son (you are gree smiley and familey are red smiley faces). You see a BG with a gun about to enter the gym from a door to your left. You assume he is a mass killer.

    You are unarmed because no gun signs which are posted have the force of law. What do you do? (and no...you can not let him shoot the speaker)

    I brough this up because I use to frequent a place which was like this. I already had my mind made up what I would do. I would charge the BG slightly to the right allowing my family to run out the only other door. I figured it is a shooting lane in that direction because it is the only way out (no wndows). By moving to the right and running toward him he would be aimng at me.

    Any other ideas? The pic is the best I can do.scenario.jpg
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    I think I'd be looking to create distance & buy some time; "IF" I wasn't sure the other exit could be made fairly safely.

    I may move to the far corner at the far end of the bleachers; or even try to get underneath them. I may look for a storage closet, bathroom or locker room door. (I always do this type thing upon entering a strange environment anyway,)

    If there are no other/SAFER options, I would do my best to close distance on the shooter without getting shot; while my family (hopefully) disappeared into the escaping crowd.

    -

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    I think I'd be looking to create distance & buy some time; "IF" I wasn't sure the other exit could be made fairly safely.

    I may move to the far corner at the far end of the bleachers; or even try to get underneath them. I may look for a storage closet, bathroom or locker room door. (I always do this type thing upon entering a strange environment anyway,)

    If there are no other/SAFER options, I would do my best to close distance on the shooter without getting shot; while my family (hopefully) disappeared into the escaping crowd.

    -
    The real location is set up like in the picture. The only closets and equipment room would be behind the speaker so that is not an option. The seats are folding seats and there is not cover except possibly a speaker or two.
    I know, it is a toughie. I do not think that the three of us rushing toward the more rear exit would make it since the BG would open fire on moving targets toward the only exit.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    run away
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    I'd point out the no gun sign to him......
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

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    I think your answer is the only correct answer. You have to close with the enemy and make your attempt. Running just makes you one of several targets. You may make it, but that's based only on luck of the draw and I've never been too lucky. I tell my family to start by running directly across the gym floor and try to get behind the crowd that's rushing the door putting the crowd between them and the shooter as they then move toward the exit. If this were to happen it is just one of those days that you have to accept you may well die and be OK with that then do what you can to avoid it.
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    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    If the folding seats are individual, your could execute your original plan with chair in hand. If you can close to within throwing distance before he reacts, it might distract him enough for you to complete closure and effect a take-down. It might depend of whether he enters with gun up and pointing or has it in his hand, but hanging down by his leg. If you are able to get to him before he reacts (30 ft?) you could use the edge or the chair against his wrist, head/neck, shins, etc. to disable him.

    There is also the possibility that he is part of the program--a practical demonstration of a possible risk.
    tcox4freedom and BigStick like this.

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    If the folding seats are individual, your could execute your original plan with chair in hand. If you can close to within throwing distance before he reacts, it might distract him enough for you to complete closure and effect a take-down. It might depend of whether he enters with gun up and pointing or has it in his hand, but hanging down by his leg. If you are able to get to him before he reacts (30 ft?) you could use the edge or the chair against his wrist, head/neck, shins, etc. to disable him.

    There is also the possibility that he is part of the program--a practical demonstration of a possible risk.
    The only part of the scenario that is not true is what the speaker is talking about....that was a joke. Dang, I really need to work more emoitcons in. It would not be a demonstration or anything like that. Assume it is real.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    VIP Member Array joker1's Avatar
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    Me and mine are heading for the door away from the shooter, preferably behind some moving concealment.
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    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    I'd point out the no gun sign to him......
    Yup. Stand up and shout to him, "Can't you read? You can't have that here!" And of course we all know that he would immediately realize that it was illegal and turn himself into the police, thus proving that "No Gun Signs" do in fact work.

    In all actuality, I wouldn't be there to begin with. I hate crowds.
    ruger91 likes this.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    You are in a gymnasium listening to a speaker on the attributes of gun control laws. It is the size of a gym with a basketball court and 6 nets. You are in the first row with wife and son (you are gree smiley and familey are red smiley faces). You see a BG with a gun about to enter the gym from a door to your left. You assume he is a mass killer.

    You are unarmed because no gun signs which are posted have the force of law. What do you do? (and no...you can not let him shoot the speaker)

    I brough this up because I use to frequent a place which was like this. I already had my mind made up what I would do. I would charge the BG slightly to the right allowing my family to run out the only other door. I figured it is a shooting lane in that direction because it is the only way out (no wndows). By moving to the right and running toward him he would be aimng at me.

    Any other ideas? The pic is the best I can do.scenario.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    The real location is set up like in the picture. The only closets and equipment room would be behind the speaker so that is not an option. The seats are folding seats and there is not cover except possibly a speaker or two.
    I know, it is a toughie. I do not think that the three of us rushing toward the more rear exit would make it since the BG would open fire on moving targets toward the only exit.
    I agree to the point where YOU have to be the distraction. As stated in your second post above however, there are closets and the equipment room BEHIND the speaker. I think the idea of you being the distraction so that family can exit toward the door which you've already selected for them is the only way to potentially save them. With that in mind though, I would rather make the shooter have a longer shot at a moving target rather than charge toward him diagonally.

    With that being said..I'm breaking hard to the right of the speaker's podium...Perhaps toward the closets or equipment room, perhaps toward the far corner of the gym. The longer and more difficult I can make the shooter's shot, the better off I will be (I hope)...Perhaps if he's carrying a pistol or semi-automatic, he will empty it before he hits me and others will have the chance to bum rush him and take him down. The speaker will be the only other "unlucky" one if he's shooting in my direction and it will potentially allow others to exit the gym behind my family...JMO
    suntzu and tcox4freedom like this.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Ksgunner's Avatar
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    I musta forgot I had my gun on when I came in and didn't remember until I saw him with the gun so I thought instead of dyin I might as well shoot him first cause it's better to be tried by 12 then carried out by six....just sayin

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    First Sgt brought up a good point. Updated drawing:scenario1.jpg
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joker1 View Post
    Me and mine are heading for the door away from the shooter, preferably behind some moving concealment.
    I would probably do the same. Moving concealment in this case would be one of those folding chairs. Depending on his ammo it might even be able to save our lives. I think its less likely to get shot heading for the door than heading straight at the shooter... so I'll take my chances with his ability to hit a target moving left to right instead of straight at him.

    Also, are there any other weapons available for me?

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    The biggest problem I see with heading for the door awa from the shooter is if you are not acting really quick you might be behind a bunch of other folks headed for the only door. I am not concerned about the BG's aim but more concerned about being stuck in a crowd in a kill zone which is where he would be shooting unless there is something to distract him. I figure the speaker is already dead since he is right there as the BG comes in.

    Not saying my idea is correct, but by being aggressive and charging toward or diagaonally away from the shooter you give your family more of a chance in getting out. Other thoughts are to pretend you got a gun to make you more of a target.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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