Defensive Carry Positions and Being Grabbed From Behind

This is a discussion on Defensive Carry Positions and Being Grabbed From Behind within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by mulle46 I think it's more a matter now that a lot of people aren't comfortable going hands-on anymore, as society has become ...

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Thread: Defensive Carry Positions and Being Grabbed From Behind

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Happypuppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mulle46 View Post
    I think it's more a matter now that a lot of people aren't comfortable going hands-on anymore, as society has become less physical.
    Sadly I concur. The population is 40% obese and grabbing them would be problematic
    screaming is all i can think of. There is much that can be done to get away but it involves training and unless they get some they are pretty much screwed.

    Magic weapons or techniques don't exist without even basic training.


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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    Mulle46, I know what you mean. I had to detrain some of my self defense tatics because they would not look good in court.
    Semper Fi
    "Marines don't surrender-they win or die." from Brute

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkCo1 View Post
    I had to detrain some of my self defense tatics because they would not look good in court.


    Conversely, I determined I would be a ruthless SOB in order to insure the safety of my family and self.

  5. #34
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    I think it was Col. Cooper who said something like "The first battle is the fight itself, the second is the one in court".

    Do what you have to do to win then prepare for the court battle.

    With the exception of having more of a midline carry or having a BUG or blade you will have to rely on physical contact to break the hold. Cause pain, make it where he does not want to play anymore.

    I had this video that may help some. I realize that this is reacting when you already have your weapon out but it may give the OP some ideas.

    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  6. #35
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    Obviously, you've gotten a lot of responses to this already.

    As a woman (5'3" 99.6 lbs) I URGE (beg, plead, whatever) you to try them out on a willing partner. Of course, don't break any fingers and use a spatula or something as a trainer knife, etc, but as someone who has gone to a lot of "women self defense" classes I warn you that a lot of these techniques do not work for all women.

    You are obviously a little bigger than me so you might have more success but I literally have had men laugh at me when I try certain techniques.

    I am currently taking Krav and thankfully my instructor watches me very carefully and when he sees that something is not working for me he immediately improvises or teaches me something else because there's no point in working a maneuver that isn't going to get you the desired result.. i.e. free of your attacker.

    I also agree with others when they say that getting physical (REALLY physical) is a lost art. It really is. You have to think dirty and not be afraid to let your aggression out.. especially if you are up against a physically superior attacker.

    For this situation I like knives... specifically a fixed blade knife carried in the belly button region.

    What really hasn't been covered (or at least not that I read) is targeting.

    So you get that knife out.. yes, you can start hacking and possibly be successful in getting him off of you... but, again, he's going to expect you to respond and in an adrenaline dump situation many people do not realize that they have been cut until they see blood.

    If he's holding you from behind he might think you are scratching him and if you aren't cutting anything vital to his hold he will still be able to hold you.

    Obviously you don't want to be cutting right in front of your chest. If he decides to slam you down to the front you could easily stab yourself in the chest. If you can get out a knife you should have enough arm movement from the elbow down to reach from side to side. ... Hook the blade into the crease of his elbow, pull (or press, however you want to think of it) down on the knife as hard as you can to put the most pressure on the blade into his skin/arm and then drag it down and out ... if you want you can even saw it back and forth.... it will cut him to the bone.. and with it all of his tendons and muscles he's using to hold onto you.

    He will physically be unable to hold on to you.... even if he was so hyped up he didn't feel a single thing. His arm physically will cease to work from the elbow down.

    When it comes to knives the most important kind of cut is the functional cut: cutting mechanisms of the body that allow it to function such as muscles and tendons.
    Next is blood cuts: cutting an area of major blood supply to get the attacker to bleed out.
    Last is cutting just to inflict pain.. Yeah, if what you are doing isn't producing any of the top two results (body mechanical failure or copious loss of blood) then you are potentially in for a long fight because pain is subjective though, of course, it's better than nothing.

  7. #36
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    Use your heel and drag down their shin and stomp as hard as you can on their foot, if you feel their head near yours, bash their face with the back of your skull...

    >>> this is optional, easier to just move away. ( and step off to one side and hammer fist the attacker in the groin, if able, grab a handful of their boys and squeeze and twist, upward elbow to the nose or any target that presents itself on your way away from the attackers arms)

    Step forward and away from the attacker, take this opportunity to draw.

  8. #37
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    As mentioned above.. its important to practice stuff like this... just like shooting...

    If your opponent is out to hurt you.. stop them from seeing, breathing, and moving.

    But knowing what you need to do, and doing so effectively will save your life, or hesitating can cost you your life..


    You can teach a person to kill, but when it comes time... its all up to the trained, conditioned response... you need to instill it in yourself so that you will act...

    Hand to hand combat is just like a shooting situation... you may be far more skilled, and may hold their life in your hands... but it does you absolutely NOTHING if you fail to act.. just some observations...

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    Model Mugging, if those courses are still offered.

  10. #39
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    Lima, you are so right on targeting being the key to making a technique work. Pain is good but there is no guarantee of results. If you make it impossible for your attacker to physically continue, it doesn't matter if he can feel it or not, or wants to continue fighting--he can't.
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  11. #40
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    Not only practice the H2H stuff, but practice it with Airsoft and you can find out if the gun techniques will really work or not.
    tcox4freedom and Hoganbeg like this.

  12. #41
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    Yesterday I mentioned this discussion in class and the sifu was interested and had us pair up in groups to practice the defense against "grab from behind."

    We practiced the responses for a while, and a woman mentioned that this was of interest to her because she had been attacked in a parking lot. "I was walking past a van and the door slid open and a guy reached out and grabbed me from behind."

    She turned into the grab and delivered an upward palm strike to the face and did some other other combatives, and ran for it. She said there were two other men in the van. The math there is pretty easy to figure out.

    Us guys, maybe we don't need to be worried about that so much, but the women members of this board should be aware of the kind of dangers mentioned above and have responsives available.
    tcox4freedom likes this.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Obviously, you've gotten a lot of responses to this already.

    As a woman (5'3" 99.6 lbs) I URGE (beg, plead, whatever) you to try them out on a willing partner. Of course, don't break any fingers and use a spatula or something as a trainer knife, etc, but as someone who has gone to a lot of "women self defense" classes I warn you that a lot of these techniques do not work for all women.

    You are obviously a little bigger than me so you might have more success but I literally have had men laugh at me when I try certain techniques.

    I am currently taking Krav and thankfully my instructor watches me very carefully and when he sees that something is not working for me he immediately improvises or teaches me something else because there's no point in working a maneuver that isn't going to get you the desired result.. i.e. free of your attacker.

    I also agree with others when they say that getting physical (REALLY physical) is a lost art. It really is. You have to think dirty and not be afraid to let your aggression out.. especially if you are up against a physically superior attacker.

    For this situation I like knives... specifically a fixed blade knife carried in the belly button region.

    What really hasn't been covered (or at least not that I read) is targeting.

    So you get that knife out.. yes, you can start hacking and possibly be successful in getting him off of you... but, again, he's going to expect you to respond and in an adrenaline dump situation many people do not realize that they have been cut until they see blood.

    If he's holding you from behind he might think you are scratching him and if you aren't cutting anything vital to his hold he will still be able to hold you.

    Obviously you don't want to be cutting right in front of your chest. If he decides to slam you down to the front you could easily stab yourself in the chest. If you can get out a knife you should have enough arm movement from the elbow down to reach from side to side. ... Hook the blade into the crease of his elbow, pull (or press, however you want to think of it) down on the knife as hard as you can to put the most pressure on the blade into his skin/arm and then drag it down and out ... if you want you can even saw it back and forth.... it will cut him to the bone.. and with it all of his tendons and muscles he's using to hold onto you.

    He will physically be unable to hold on to you.... even if he was so hyped up he didn't feel a single thing. His arm physically will cease to work from the elbow down.

    When it comes to knives the most important kind of cut is the functional cut: cutting mechanisms of the body that allow it to function such as muscles and tendons.
    Next is blood cuts: cutting an area of major blood supply to get the attacker to bleed out.
    Last is cutting just to inflict pain.. Yeah, if what you are doing isn't producing any of the top two results (body mechanical failure or copious loss of blood) then you are potentially in for a long fight because pain is subjective though, of course, it's better than nothing.
    I like your post and generally agree with what you are saying. I'm also very glad you found a Krav instructor
    you are happy with.

    My only concern with what you are suggesting is that in your scenario, where you pull the knife from
    mid-line while your upper arms are still pinned by the BG, you might not have the range of motion to cut
    more than his wrists and fingers, if that. The BG OTOH is in an excellent position to effect a disarm of your knife from
    your hand and slash you across the stomach, then put it against your neck.

    There are NEVER easy answers to these situation because they are very dynamic and the precise physical
    match up is always going to be different by victim.

    I'd like to suggest that you play with this at the gym using a dummy knife of course. It may be that
    using the knife (even revealing that it is on you) needs to wait till you have some more freedom of motion.

    Also, I know you took that special TDI course, and I think I recall that you are carrying the 3.5 inch knife with
    the angle to the handle/blade. Do you think that blade shape would be advantageous over a straight blade
    in this scenario. I can see how it might be, but want to hear from you as you've been through the training.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  14. #43
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    I consider a distraction as the first line of defense if attacked from behind. You want my keys or wallet? No problem. Pull them and toss them to the side. You have him distracted and you have time to draw.

    I realized that as a good tactic probably 15 years ago while working in an ER. The police pistol nation matches were in town (Jackson, MS) and a bad buy decided to rob one of the competetors. The cop threw his keys to the side and proceeded to put several center mass when the bad guy went for them. He chose the wrong guy to rob and now society doesn't have to worry about him anymore. Score one for the good guys.

  15. #44
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    Don't forget that there is no rule saying you have to use your knife on your attacker's arms or wrists; the groin and thigh are readily available. It might also be possible to reach the back of his knee to sever those tendons. Also, a good pinch to the inside of someone's thigh can be a remarkably effective distraction, opening the way to other, more debilitating techniques. That is a very tender area and the body tends to react whether you want it to or not, I know this from personal experience.
    Bubbiesdad and limatunes like this.

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    Don't forget that there is no rule saying you have to use your knife on your attacker's arms or wrists; the groin and thigh are readily available. It might also be possible to reach the back of his knee to sever those tendons. Also, a good pinch to the inside of someone's thigh can be a remarkably effective distraction, opening the way to other, more debilitating techniques. That is a very tender area and the body tends to react whether you want it to or not, I know this from personal experience.
    I like the way you think.
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