Multiple perps in the park at picnic time: what to do?
This is a discussion on Multiple perps in the park at picnic time: what to do? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Adding to the list of things we don't know : How good a shot the BG's ( either pair ) are. Obviously, they know how ...
October 3rd, 2006 01:57 PM
Adding to the list of things we don't know : How good a shot the BG's ( either pair ) are. Obviously, they know how to work as a team, whether it's two teams, or one large one. I would assume that they are working together until a see otherwise. They are obviously bold ( or stupidly reckless ). Intervening might make it worse. Another good question, as to whether they are cops or bounty hunters. We don't know what started this while incident, a parking lot dispute or a triple homicide ? A cop MIGHT act this way if the person was considered armed and dangerous, and if they were known killers. Maybe the guy is a billionaire and he has body guards ( hence the need for four BG's ). My point, you don't know a whole lot of stuff.
Regardless, I am NOT going to involve myself in an armed conflict, outnumbered, with my loved one(s) in the general area. While my wife and I MAY be capable of taking down one pair, the second could just as quickly turn on us. Also, we MIGHT miss and hit someone down range, maybe a kid. I couldn't fire in a crowded situation like this without being personally threatened, either. So, we are LEAVING, as quick as possible, guns still hidden, but in hand.
My job, as I see it, is for defense of me and mine, not someone else. Sorry, but they are on thier own, unless either pair of BG's decide to start shooting randomly into the crowd. I COULD take pictures with my cell phone to help later, if I thought I could do it without escalating things, but thats the limit of my involvement unless it gets worse, like executing the father, wife or kids.
October 3rd, 2006 01:57 PM
October 3rd, 2006 04:54 PM
I think you guys have been watching too much TV...
October 4th, 2006 12:11 AM
Protect yours and call LE. Out gunned even if they are not good shots every one gets lucky, no cover approching in the open not good. If you have a long gun in your vehicle leave it there and let the police handle it. It comes down to are you willing to get you or your wife killed to help someone else if not be a good witness.
October 4th, 2006 01:43 AM
Which part(s)? Which posting(s)?
Originally Posted by chadwimc
Actually, a drug-involved takedown can occur something like this, if undercover officers observe someone being threatened. Depends on the factors, of course. Hence the scenario as posed. I've seen one multi-officer takedown in a park, for a couple of druggies engaged in a "buy", and one takedown of a person on a city street with lots of passersby. This scenario isn't all that dissimilar.
For me, doing anything other than taking cover is not in the cards. Right in front of me (12-15ft away) though? Would entirely depend on whether I was being directly targeted. Paired response, working as a team, could offer up enough resistance to be able to get out of there. As many have said, it's a bad scene.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
October 4th, 2006 07:35 AM
To illustrate how weird things can be, I'll regurgitate a previous post that I was really involved in. Nighttime, standing outside McDonalds. White guy rides up on a bicycle fast, falls over. Older model Ford pulls into lot fast, chasing the bike. Biker jumps up and runs toward car, yelling. Black driver pulls a revolver and starts yelling. I was working armed security. Drew on the situation and waited for more info. Both actors in the same lane of fire. My partner comes outside, sees this, and draws his weapon.
What's going on? What do you do?
Driver is a detective attempting to question the biker. I am in HIS lane of fire.
I knew the detective (recognized his voice/caribbean accent), who only survived getting shot by my partner because he was working off my lead. All he saw was a "black guy" pointing a gun at a "white guy". Neither of us saw the white guy's knife.
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
October 5th, 2006 01:09 AM
Rocky and PolorBear have it IMO. We who choose to carry are not the gaurdians of those who choose not to.
You are in a park which means there are other people that most likely will not notice what is happening and the chances of hitting one with a stray round is to great IMO, after all no one hits the target every time at 50 feet.
To die in battle is oone thing as long as it is my battle to fight.
If the bgs were intending to take out the family they would walk up and shooot and if the BGs did decide to shoot the family there will be little to do to stop them at that point, it doesn't matter how much training you have as they can have 15 shots off before you get the first one down.
October 5th, 2006 02:58 AM
Get my family to safety, call 911, be a good witness(therefore stay alive). Each person is responsible for their own safety, I am not a LEO and I am not required to protect others.
October 5th, 2006 06:37 AM
seems pretty unlikely, but at the first sign of this kind of 'multiple' problems...I'm on the phone while my family and I are walking away from this spot...quickly!
This is a 'lose-lose' situation. If four BG's open up with blazing guns, someone is going to get a stray bullet...hopefully, not your family.
I am not a cop, but I trust my alertness would give me time to clear my family from this area.
We are not here to SAVE the world...
The WORLD...is too big to die, and too sick to get better!
"A man's gotta' know his limits!"
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
October 7th, 2006 01:13 AM
Originally Posted by rocky
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
October 7th, 2006 10:16 AM
It's all been said
1. Get family to cover (safety)
2. Call 911 N be a good witness
But now the situation escalates, they threaten to kill and it is drop dead obvious they are about to kill them him frist then the rest of the family now what?
Me I know what I can do with my HK USP and the M6X at 50' and head shots are not a problem at this range for this gun, the wife's .357 with laser grips is sighted in for 25 yard silhouette so still not a issue.
Now how about you?
"The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
October 7th, 2006 12:07 PM
This is definitely a situation where I would be torn between two philosophies.
On the one hand, screw people who don't care enough about their own safety enough to take precautions.
As far as I care, if you aren't willing to take measures to defend yourself, then you deserve the "victimhood" that you have bestowed upon yourself.
On the other hand, the guy's family doesn't deserve being victimized by his ignorance.
If a murder was imminent, I think I would probably get into the (gun)fight and let God sort things out to determine the outcome.
Calling 911 is great and should of course be done immediately, but the situation as described is "going down" too fast to rely on cops to do any more than draw those pretty chalk lines around the bodies.
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