Accidentally carried into a NO CC building, but others' lives are threatened - Page 3

Accidentally carried into a NO CC building, but others' lives are threatened

This is a discussion on Accidentally carried into a NO CC building, but others' lives are threatened within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is the way I see it... In a store looking at the fridges for a drink, BG comes in yielding a gun at the ...

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  1. #31
    Member Array MP.40c's Avatar
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    This is the way I see it...
    In a store looking at the fridges for a drink, BG comes in yielding a gun at the clerk and patrons in line, i would position myself with a clear shot in front and behind BG, tell him to freeze while pointing my 40 cal at his chest and if he turns pointing his gun at me... BANG! Justifiable. I think
    But if there was a crime in progress and if there is or isn't a weapon in sight sometimes the sight of a gun being pointed at the BG would make them stop and flee or worse,turn on you...
    Thin line between hero and vigilante i feel.


  2. #32
    Member Array Mjr_Fail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    According to this document, starting on page 32, they do:
    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/...q-20111020.pdf
    If asked to leave you must comply. If you fail to comply, then there will be a problem.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjr_Fail View Post
    If asked to leave you must comply. If you fail to comply, then there will be a problem.
    That isn't how the law reads.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    That isn't how the law reads.
    A person may be subject to a Class B forfeiture if he or she carries a firearm on the property after being notified not to remain on the property or remain with a specific type of firearm.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjr_Fail View Post
    A person may be subject to a Class B forfeiture if he or she carries a firearm on the property after being notified not to remain on the property or remain with a specific type of firearm.
    And an appropriate gun-buster sign is not notification? It certainly seems clear in the statute.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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  6. #36
    Member Array minimalbrat's Avatar
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    This is the only answer I can come up with. Can you sleep at night knowing you could have saved someones life but didn't. I couldn't.
    Our House Is Protected By The Good Lord And A gun. You Might Meet Both Of Them If You Show Up Inside My House Uninvited.

  7. #37
    Member Array Mjr_Fail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    And an appropriate gun-buster sign is not notification? It certainly seems clear in the statute.
    Do you know what the word REMAIN means?

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimalbrat View Post
    This is the only answer I can come up with. Can you sleep at night knowing you could have saved someones life but didn't. I couldn't.
    Indeed. The discussion seems to have taken a different course here but the essence of the question posed in the original post is; would you be willing to face the consequences of being discovered in violation of a store's posted gun buster policy to stop a violent crime and possibly save a life or lives? In my opinion, for any man of conscience the course is clear.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjr_Fail View Post
    Do you know what the word REMAIN means?
    Do you know what force of law means?
    Echo_Four likes this.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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  10. #40
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    I don't know if you could call a gunbuster sign notification. One could argue that to be notified a business would have to specifically notify a particular person. Because in honesty a sign isn't going to be seen by every person that enters a business. Someone could be standing between you and the sign, you could have been looking at someone or something else as you entered, or any number of reasonable things and not see the sign. Of course I say this noting I am not licensed to practice law in the state of Wisconsin and would urge anyone that is in Wisconsin to seek competent legal advice before doing something that gets you arrested. Telling the judge that the guys on a forum said you could do something isn't going to work as a defense.
    "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    I don't know if you could call a gunbuster sign notification. One could argue that to be notified a business would have to specifically notify a particular person. Because in honesty a sign isn't going to be seen by every person that enters a business. Someone could be standing between you and the sign, you could have been looking at someone or something else as you entered, or any number of reasonable things and not see the sign. Of course I say this noting I am not licensed to practice law in the state of Wisconsin and would urge anyone that is in Wisconsin to seek competent legal advice before doing something that gets you arrested. Telling the judge that the guys on a forum said you could do something isn't going to work as a defense.
    I'm not a lawyer, either. This site, tho, assures us that in Wisconsin, signs do indeed have the force of law:
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/wisconsin.pdf
    I also wouldn't want to use the I-didn't-see-the-sign defense when appearing before a judge on a firearms charge.
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP.40c View Post
    This is the way I see it...
    In a store looking at the fridges for a drink, BG comes in yielding a gun at the clerk and patrons in line, i would position myself with a clear shot in front and behind BG, tell him to freeze while pointing my 40 cal at his chest and if he turns pointing his gun at me... BANG! Justifiable. I think
    But if there was a crime in progress and if there is or isn't a weapon in sight sometimes the sight of a gun being pointed at the BG would make them stop and flee or worse,turn on you...
    Thin line between hero and vigilante i feel.
    Justifiable? You think...?

    Of course it is. I'm glad you're participating in this discussion because it's important to know the legalities of employing lethal force.

    It would be justified even if you shot him in the back without yelling freeze (as a civilian, you are not required by law to issue any sort of verbal challenge). What you have here, is the quintessential definition of a deadly threat unfolding right in front of you. Recognize it for what it is! Too many people are killed because they failed to recognize the fact that they were in the middle of a deadly encounter! A man, armed with a gun, and brandishing it ostentatiously in a retail establishment demanding money. What you have is an armed robbery, and the innocent store clerk and other bystanders are in what's called "Immediate and otherwise unavoidable threat of death, or grave bodily harm!"

    The robber is armed with a deadly weapon. He has the ability and opportunity to immediately kill anyone there. He is placing everyone in jeopardy by his felonious actions of committing an armed robbery. You are justified to use lethal force to stop it. No doubt about it.

    The question is... How are the circumstances, dynamics and position of everyone there presenting itself which allows you to guarantee the desired outcome? Can you really make the shot? Do you know how your adrenaline is going to effect your ability to steady your aim and squeeze off an accurate shot? What if you do hit him, but he then shoots two other people and kills them both? You may not be legally responsible for the people the bad guy shoots as a result of your intervention (after all, it is the bad guy doing the shooting of those people) but don't think the moral pressure won't be clouding your judgement. Or at least adding to the stress you are under.

    Just a few things to consider.... But back to your original question as to whether it would be a justifiable shoot on your part, should already be known, and crystal clear in your mind before you start carrying a gun. If you're not sure about whether what you wrote would be justified or not, then you are in need of a lot more critical information regarding the legal requirements that could cause a lot of grief in the aftermath.
    Billb1960, KBSR and Eichorn like this.
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  13. #43
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    In the face of what is no doubt a felony(armed robbery)drawing and firing on the assailant would classify as justifiable homicide and count as a positive defense against any possible charge of trespassing with a firearm. Thats the rule in MN atleast, not sure about WI. In all seriousness, should it come to that, count on the NRA to get involved.

  14. #44
    Senior Member Array xsigma40cal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjr_Fail View Post
    If asked to leave you must comply. If you fail to comply, then there will be a problem.
    Clerk (covered in brain matter): "Wow, thanks for saving my life from a guy who was about to paint the walls with me, but, cmon man, read the signs."

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02R1 View Post
    Here's the situation: Let's say you accidentally carried into a "NO CC" building such as a store (non-federal law, court building) because you missed the sign posted on the front door. While inside, a robber comes in with a gun and does what all robbers do. Your life is not in immediate danger because the robber is pointing the gun at the cashier or other customers and you know you can take him/her out from your position. would you do it knowing it's a "no CC" zone?

    Personally, if the life of my love ones or those who came with me are in danger and I know I can settle the situation nice and clean without risking others' lives, I would do it regardless. If the strangers' lives are in danger, I may not bother. What would you do?

    Reason I asked this is because I've accidentally walked into a few stores and have missed the "no CC" sign. Someone held the door opened for me as I walked in and I don't remember ever seeing a "No CC" sign the previous many times i've been there. Didn't realized it until I walked out that a "No CC" sign was recently posted..
    It's impossible for a robber to bring a gun into a no-gun store....there's a sign stopping him.




    I'm confident a good lawyer could get you off the hook if the shoot is otherwise lawful defense. There is no moral difference between carrying a gun past a sign before the robbery, or running out to your care and retrieving a gun to bring to bear on the robber after it's begun.

    Fortunantly gun-busters signs are a joke in my state and we walk right past them.

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