Accidentally carried into a NO CC building, but others' lives are threatened - Page 6

Accidentally carried into a NO CC building, but others' lives are threatened

This is a discussion on Accidentally carried into a NO CC building, but others' lives are threatened within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You have answered your own question so to speak. I want to add 'lawfully carrying a firearm' as a protected class because I have a ...

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Thread: Accidentally carried into a NO CC building, but others' lives are threatened

  1. #76
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    Array tacman605's Avatar
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    You have answered your own question so to speak.

    I want to add 'lawfully carrying a firearm' as a protected class because I have a need to carry whereas the business does not have a need to deny.
    As the law stands now and will probably be for a long time to come lawfully carrying a firearm will not be added to the list of protected classes. It still comes down to it is your choice to carry and that can be changed unlike changing the color of your skin. Until that time comes you can preach all you want about it on the internet but don't give the impression that what you are saying is anymore than your particular wants and not law of the land.

    I want McDonald's to bring back the McRib more that once a year but don't think that will happen either. Either or good luck in your endeavors.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013


  2. #77
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    You have answered your own question so to speak.
    I wasn't aware I asked a question at all. I must be having a long night.

    I didn't choose to be alive, and I now have the right to defend myself. Life, and self-defense are inalienable rights, which means it cannot be taken away, even willingly (inalienable rights can not be voluntarily surrendered).

    Self-defense > land ownership. Your corporate profit margin is not worth any human being's life

  3. #78
    Member Array K7lvo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsigma40cal View Post
    Clerk (covered in brain matter): "Wow, thanks for saving my life from a guy who was about to paint the walls with me, but, cmon man, read the signs."
    Conversely, Clerk (covered in brain matter): "Why did you have to SHOOT him? He wasn't REALLY going to hurt me! Look what you did to my CLOTHES!"

    I CC to protect myself and my loved ones. Other than that, honestly, I'm not sure what I'd do. I used to be sure - kinda thought of myself as John Wayne - but I'm older now, and, if not wiser, at least more cynical. (Especially after yesterday...) Flame away if you must, but, as I said, "honestly."

  4. #79
    Member Array Cook74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7lvo View Post
    Conversely, Clerk (covered in brain matter): "Why did you have to SHOOT him? He wasn't REALLY going to hurt me! Look what you did to my CLOTHES!"

    I CC to protect myself and my loved ones. Other than that, honestly, I'm not sure what I'd do. I used to be sure - kinda thought of myself as John Wayne - but I'm older now, and, if not wiser, at least more cynical. (Especially after yesterday...) Flame away if you must, but, as I said, "honestly."
    Concur... No reason to go out of your way in any store CC or not, to protect others unless you feel threatened personally. Unless you are a LEO, your job is to protect your loved ones from getting in the way. The second poster said it right...

    "RUN AWAY" its not your fight...
    Doug;}
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    1972 Marlin 336 RC .35, 1922 Walther Model 4, 1933 Walther DSM 34, High Standard 1954 22LR

    I prefer to be judged by 12 then carried by 6

  5. #80
    Member Array Cook74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7lvo View Post
    Conversely, Clerk (covered in brain matter): "Why did you have to SHOOT him? He wasn't REALLY going to hurt me! Look what you did to my CLOTHES!"

    I CC to protect myself and my loved ones. Other than that, honestly, I'm not sure what I'd do. I used to be sure - kinda thought of myself as John Wayne - but I'm older now, and, if not wiser, at least more cynical. (Especially after yesterday...) Flame away if you must, but, as I said, "honestly."
    Concur... No reason to go out of your way in any store CC or not, to protect others unless you feel threatened personally. Unless you are a LEO, your job is to protect your loved ones from getting in the way. The second poster said it right...

    "RUN AWAY" its not your fight...

    and as far as being more cynical after this week... yep... let them fend for themselves...
    Doug;}
    RSO, WA. XDMc 9mm, S&W 642CT & 442 38 sp, 1947 Savage 99 300,
    1972 Marlin 336 RC .35, 1922 Walther Model 4, 1933 Walther DSM 34, High Standard 1954 22LR

    I prefer to be judged by 12 then carried by 6

  6. #81
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    Hypothetical scenarios suck.
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
    - Roy Batty

  7. #82
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    As to original question, signs in MO don't matter so that wouldn't affect my decision. After that, it depends - on quite a few things.

    Side note, that lawyer is about the last person whose legal advice I would follow. Pathetic example of a "professional".

  8. #83
    Member Array K7lvo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    Hypothetical scenarios suck.
    The real thing sucks w-a-y worse...

  9. #84
    Ex Member Array Edward7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02R1 View Post
    Here's the situation: Let's say you accidentally carried into a "NO CC" building such as a store (non-federal law, court building) because you missed the sign posted on the front door. While inside, a robber comes in with a gun and does what all robbers do. Your life is not in immediate danger because the robber is pointing the gun at the cashier or other customers and you know you can take him/her out from your position. would you do it knowing it's a "no CC" zone?

    Personally, if the life of my love ones or those who came with me are in danger and I know I can settle the situation nice and clean without risking others' lives, I would do it regardless. If the strangers' lives are in danger, I may not bother. What would you do?

    Reason I asked this is because I've accidentally walked into a few stores and have missed the "no CC" sign. Someone held the door opened for me as I walked in and I don't remember ever seeing a "No CC" sign the previous many times i've been there. Didn't realized it until I walked out that a "No CC" sign was recently posted..
    Id just do the right thing, regardless of legal consequences. The right thing to do and the smart thing to do aren't always the same thing.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    IANAL - but, the doctrine of "competing harms" most likely comes into play. If you are not trying to be a hero but are confronted with imminent, grievous bodily harm, it's unlikely (but not impossible) that you would be prosecuted for defending your own life or that of someone under the mantle of your protection.
    Bottom line is the prosecutor will decide on criminality. Civil liability, however, may take a different turn where an idiot OJ jury feels sorry for the BG and you lose your house.
    This reminds me of SC CCWP law that forbids me from CCing when entering a restaurant that serves alcohol. If I break law and CC and, on my way back to car at night have an "imminent incident" and discharge my firearm--this is same as thread case, IMO, in that I have a firearm on my person that should not have been there in the first place. I defended myself but did it with a firearm that never should have been on me. When I asked this of many, their answer is "I also go above the speed limit at times"---not a great answer but its intent is obvious. Hopefully SC law will change and accomodate, IMO, the single best reason for me wanting to CC.

  11. #86
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    Signs of 'no CC' carry no lawful weight in my state. "I didn't see it." Swear! A local Subway that I go to was just robbed at gunpoint last Saturday. Second time in about 5 months. Won't be going there anymore. As far as when I would shoot, etc.? I guess I would have to wait and see what develops in any given situation.

    Pointing a gun at me, my daughter or wife would probably get return fire. Isolated Convenience store where robber is 'focused' on clerk with NO shots fired I would simply 'prepare' and hope I wouldn't have to engage. I'm not LE, and my GOAL is to get myself, my daughter, and my wife OUT.
    SOLD my guns.
    Proud owner of a 12lb. Chinese pug that is DANGEROUS and is soon to be registered!

  12. #87
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    My local big mall has signs on SOME entry door but not on all. If I walk in through the east entrance, there is absolutely nothing there. I checked for sure. So I always enter and exit via that door and make sure to look up at the cameras recording all people coming in so I can prove I went in the unmarked door. I also found out from a cop that the signs they do have are not legal....SC has strict rules about their size, color and wording. All wrong.
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  13. #88
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    If i knew the place was a no cc or no gun i would only draw if my own safety or my family was jeopardized. After which I would rub it in and walk outside. By rub it I would show my cc permit and suggest I could have stopped it and wait outside for police cause im still a witness.

    If i didnt realize it was posted I would react as normal.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Here's the deal. Do you know how many thousands armed robberies go on with no one getting shot? Plenty.

    While these situations are very dynamic in nature, and anything can turn on a dime. I have decided on some thresholds which should be met before I would want to intervene in a third party situation. The sign posted on the door is not even a factor I consider, so get that straight.

    While these rules are not set in stone, if there's a situation such as a robbery going down in a store and I am not the one being robbed directly, I am going to tend to play it real cool and not try to do anything which would make things worse. I'm going to look for a way to escape, or hunker down behind cover or concealment where I am either hidden or less of a visible threat. If he eyeballs me and makes me part of the equation I'm going to more than likely shoot him repeatedly (having my gun already in my hand from a place of cover or advantage).

    If the guy completes the robbery with no shots fired, (the way it goes down in thousands of armed robberies) I'm calling the police and assisting in the investigation in any way I can.

    If the robber starts shooting people, then I'm going to engage him to try and save myself and any others who may be present. I'm going to feel real bad for anyone who got shot. But I'm not the one who shot them. What people have to realize is that once you insert yourself in the mix, there's no way of knowing how it is going to play out. There are too many unknowns. Too many variables. It is distinctly possible by engaging the robber, your actions is what initiates an all out blood bath with lots of innocent casualties.

    Again, nothing is set in stone. Violent crime is too dynamic an event to know beforehand exactly how you are going to react, or should react. However, going over scenarios like this over and over again, you can begin to strategize on how you may react and develop a set of benchmarks which tend help you determine at what point it is best to get involved.
    This except if the BG pulls the trigger at all even into the ceiling, I'm cumming up shooting. If hes just waving the gun I'm looking for ways out or at least cover. DR

  15. #90
    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    If your not aware it is posted, then it has no bearing on how you'd react.
    For the win!

    Reading comprehension and logic combined in a single post.

    Jim

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