Would you intervene with deadly force on a stranger's behalf?(poll added)

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View Poll Results: Would you intervene with deadly force on a stranger's behalf?

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  • YES

    116 77.33%
  • NO

    34 22.67%
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Thread: Would you intervene with deadly force on a stranger's behalf?(poll added)

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    What if the person you save has made a conscious decision not to protect themselves? That they strongly believe that only the Government should be allowed to take a life? Do his rights to not defend himself not matter?

    Michael

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Yes

    "Use of a Firearm or Other Deadly Force in Defense of Life and Body"
    "The killing of one person by another may be justifiable when necessary to resist the attempt
    to commit a forcible and life-threatening crime, provided that a reasonable person in the same or
    similar situation would believe that (a) the person killed intended to commit a forcible and lifethreatening
    crime; (b) there was imminent danger of such crime being accomplished; and (c) the
    person acted under the belief that such force was necessary to save himself or herself or another
    from death or a forcible and life-threatening crime. Murder, mayhem, rape, and robbery are
    examples of forcible and life-threatening crimes.
    "
    Even the Ca. DOJ Handbook says that I MAY be justified. I'm sure that there would be a million things going on in my head at the time but I know that if the situation presented itself and the scale tips, I couldn't sit there and watch someone get killed. OK, so the answer is yes but I would also like to add that there are other situations where I wouldn't and someone may die as a result. That situation would be for example: Two guys just come out of a bar as I'm passing from across the street, both of them armed and obviously have been drinking. One with a tire iron and the other with a knife....I'm outta here! I'm heading home to flip on the news to see who "won" after calling 911.

    May that day never come but if it does, I'm crossing my fingers for good evidence, a good attorney and a jury with a lot of common sense. My "Yes" is based solely on the fact that I do see certain situations where I most definitely would and couldn't live with myself if I did nothing.
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  4. #48
    Member Array awanatech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    What if the person you save has made a conscious decision not to protect themselves? That they strongly believe that only the Government should be allowed to take a life? Do his rights to not defend himself not matter?

    Michael
    And how will you know this in the midst of whatever situation is going on? While I agree that people have a right not to defend themselves, I also believe that if we don't confront evil when & where it is, then the evil will prevail. What if the person has made some effort to defend themselves, only to find out at that moment that they hadn't prepared enough? How do we decide that they made enough of an effort on their own that they are worthy of our intervention?

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    I could not fault a person for not coming to my aid if he was worried that it might place his family in economic or even physical danger from possible retaliation of the the criminals friends or family. I know that his family comes first, or at least it should in my opinion.
    I think my family would rather me die a hero than live a coward and I feel the same (not directed at you, just my thoughts based on what you wrote).

    "There is no greater love than to lay down your life for another" book of paraphrased excerpts from the Bible.
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  6. #50
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiceAsh View Post
    How can you truthfully answer a Hypothetical Question? There are so many variables, and every situation is different.

    I would act differently if I was alone, as opposed to being with my wife and daughter. As a Father and a Husband, I will always look to protect my wife and daughter first.

    It would also depend if there was an immediate deadly threat. Someone yelling that they were going to "kill everyone" without actually having a weapon is not a reason to shoot.

    If I was in a situation, and I knew my family was safe, and there was an immediate threat to another person, like a robbery or "spree" shooting, and I thought I could stop it, then yes, I might. But still would have to be darn sure of the situation.

    Never take lightly the use of deadly force. No matter if you were completely in the right, your life will forever be changed. And even if you are cleared any charges, you may still face civil law suits.

    So, don't just arm yourself with your gun, arm yourself with knowledge of how, and when to use it, and what the consequences of your actions may be.

    rg
    Several points I would make concerning comments in this reply by NiceAsh.
    1. If it were our family I do not think any of us would think of walking away, or ignoring the situation or just calling 911--I think that is a "given".
    2.If it were some sort of situation where there is an immediate threat to others, depending on your state laws, there are Alter Ego Rules in effect in many states including SC. If I presume, as a reasonable person, that someone is in imminent threat or danger of death or great bodily injury I have permission under the Rule, to act as if that "someone" is me and I can act accordingly. The only problem here is that you are taking a chance that your "presumption" of what you "think is happening" could be incorrect and then you have made a terrible mistake, particularly if you have used your firearm to supposedly stop the threat that turns out to be a whole lot different than what you thought it was. This Rule, in the perfect world, makes absolute sense but we live in an inperfect world where you can never be sure of what you think you saw.
    3. In SC, after all is said and done, if your actions are considered a "good shoot" you are not civilly liable. That does not mean someone cannot try and sue you but if the prosecutor has declined, there will be no real civil liability.
    4. Unless you are really good at this "gun stuff" and can be sure of the dynamics of a situation, being a good witness may serve you better

  7. #51
    Ex Member Array pir8fan's Avatar
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    Would use my firearm to help a stranger if neither my family nor I was in danger? No. My firearm is carried to protect my family and me, period. If my family or I were in danger, then the answer is absolutely a YES.

  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    What if the person you save has made a conscious decision not to protect themselves? That they strongly believe that only the Government should be allowed to take a life? Do his rights to not defend himself not matter?

    Michael
    In most circumstances there would not be time to interrogate someone to find out if they wanted to be "saved." One has to go on the same premise that a jury would be expected to deliberate on - "would a REASONABLE person act in the way that occurred?" Sometimes you have people who don't want help. But they are the exception over the rule so, for me at least, I refuse to follow the rules of "politically correct" and risk offending someone due to the situation. But again, that's just me.
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  9. #53
    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    As far as an adult - They had the opportunity to carry, (if they didn't screw it up for themselves)... sorry, but no.

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mlr1m
    I could not fault a person for not coming to my aid if he was worried that it might place his family in economic or even physical danger from possible retaliation of the the criminals friends or family. I know that his family comes first, or at least it should in my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    I think my family would rather me die a hero than live a coward and I feel the same (not directed at you, just my thoughts based on what you wrote).

    "There is no greater love than to lay down your life for another" book of paraphrased excerpts from the Bible.
    I did not take it personally. Nothing personal either way. Just voicing ideas.
    I believe that being single and no family makes my choice on whether or not to intervene easier that it might be for someone with family he is responsible for. That depend on him being there for them. I do not envy any of them should they ever need to make that choice.
    And even if your family would prefer you be a hero sometimes whats they prefer is not whats best for them. As I said its have to be a much more difficult decision for folks with families.

    Michael

  11. #55
    Member Array rick21's Avatar
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    Bravery or cowadice has little or nothing to do with topic. There is nothing brave or cowardly about shooting someone who is busy killing another person. If it's done it right the BG won't even know you're there. Our family might think us a hero if die while protecting an innocent, but what would our families think of us if our bullet misses the BG and kill's an innocent person. What will our families think of us if we are sued and loose everything. How will our families be provided for with no money and us sitting in prison. I know, I know we won't miss. Yeah, I never miss either.

    Far more things can go wrong than can go right when we get involved in some else's fight. There is a reason LEO's have multi million dollar liability insurance policies.
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  12. #56
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post


    Would you as a CC'er, OC'er gun carrying citizen intervene on the behalf of a stranger to prevent their death or serious physical injury?

    NO.

    Police officer shoots man with cel phone...
    Police officers shoot armed man at Empire state building, 9 innocent people injured
    Police shoot old lady on stoop.
    Police officer shoots retired police officer...Who was shooting at perp...
    Idiot shoots at escaping cell phone thieves.
    Man video tapes loud party kills a party participant (Texas, recent).
    Man shoots boy with skittles and tea.(Florida, recent)

    Who's my target? In each case?

    I'm not bashing cops, BTW... but if I'm supposed to defend the innocent with my firearm... who's my target?

    Now, In a case where I see all the developments leading up to the grave peril of an innocent victim being attacked by another civilian... that's different.

    Crystal Clear good guy/bad guy scene.

    Both the latter... probably would intervene.

    What if you saw a LEO, in uniform, beating, tasering, and pulling his gun on someone you KNEW... absolutely KNEW to be innocent? Would you stop the threat?

    This is not a yes or no question tacman, sorry...

    But, in a crystal clear case... to your question, yes.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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  13. #57
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Have not read the other post but to answer the question.

    Would you as a CC'er, OC'er gun carrying citizen intervene on the behalf of a stranger to prevent their death or serious physical injury?

    YES, if I thought I knew the whole story and saw it from the start. If you come in in the middle of the act you could be getting into something you had no business dealing with.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

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  14. #58
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    For me this is a bit, whopping, "Depends."

    More often than not I'm inclined to say, "No," but there are clear cut situations that even if someone were a police officer, etc, it should not be allowed to continue.

    I can't say for 100% certain I would jump in (it depends on my location, accessibility, my children and their safety, etc) but I couldn't say I would never use lethal force in defense of another.

  15. #59
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    What if you saw a LEO, in uniform, beating, tasering, and pulling his gun on someone you KNEW... absolutely KNEW to be innocent? Would you stop the threat?
    Yes!
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  16. #60
    Member Array CPanther95's Avatar
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    Can't answer without more to go on.

    But if I ever do have to make that decision, I can guarantee that the loss of one of my firearms - temporarily, or permanently - would have absolutely ZERO bearing on my decision.

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