Looks like your getting cut either way, but would you really just stand there?
This is a discussion on VIDEO of knife attack within 21 feet... NO WAY you can draw fast enough within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...821456&q=knife This is a great video that really outlines the 21 foot rule and really shows that no matter how good you are, you realistically ...
This is a great video that really outlines the 21 foot rule and really shows that no matter how good you are, you realistically won't be able to draw fast enough anywhere within 21 feet.
Looks like your getting cut either way, but would you really just stand there?
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This is why you don't stand rooted to one spot if someone charges you. Step at 45's (the degree, not the caliber ) to his path of travel, keeping distance with your weak hand, and he will have a harder time following you, which will hopefully give you a little more time to draw and aquire.
Knife defences are very risky, no matter what you're armed with, but if you allow yourself to stay in the attacker's line of travel, you're gonna get dead, plain and simple.
Nice video. When I was in the Marines my buddy was LEO and clued me in on the 15ft rule (with the gun drawn I believe), I understand that the rule is now 21 feet. Is the 21 foot rule with holstered weapon or drawn?
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.
21' = holstered.
As pointed out above, if you are standing in the same spot you will get cut (or shot) by a perp. Good trainers emphasize that you need to move away at an angle so that as the perp advances, you are NOT there when they get to you (as you are drawing and firing).
The training for us is the 21' rule.
Some years ago I had a suspect coming at me with knife in hand, stalking slowly from about 30'. He got numerous (very loud) commands to drop it or die. I mentally drew the 21' line in the parking lot while constantly moving off his line of advancement. He kept changing directions, to continue coming toward me. When I was backed up as far as I could go, I took the slack out of the trigger to put one between his eyes, took a deep breath, and calmly and quietly gave him one more command to drop it. For some reason known only to him, it finally sunk into his pea sized brain that he was about to die and he dropped it.
Bottom line is this: If you see a knife, DON'T LET THEM GET WITHIN 21' and DON'T STAND IN THE LINE OF THEIR ADVANCEMENT.
(For anyone familiar with downtown Knoxville, this happened at the Circle Inn, the trash dump that it was, which was across from Greyhound.)
When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle
Rob Longenecker has provided some pics/video earlier that prompted some great discussion.
Note the female officer- if she hadn't tried to go into a shooting stance, she would have been able to get some lead into him. Clear holster, cant, and fire. Moving offline, and using her off hand to shove/block, and she could make it. Good reflexes, just needs different exposure. ("Kill", vs. "Display the Gun and Hope to Capture")
Accord, did you actually listen to the video or did you just read the English information at the top about 21 feet? There is NOTHING in the video that proves you can't draw fast enough from 21 feet given that the furthest distance demo'd in the video was 12 feet. At 12 feet, Monica was reported to have been able to have been getting off shots! So at 21 feet, it looks like she would have been kicking butt...and that is with utilizing a poor technique of NOT attempting any sort of retreat beyond a simple drop step.
What the video does show is that from within 12 feet and knowing a knife attack is coming, if you have horrible self defense skills and only thinkthat drawing a gun is your only defense, you will likely lose. All of the folks with guns attempted to draw and shoot 2 handed. None attempted to parry with the off hand. None attempted to one hand draw and shoot. The guys drew in a bowling draw. None attempted retention shooting. None attempted to any more of a retreat than a single drop step or pivot.
Given the distance of 12 feet and not doing much more than she did, Monica did well. Imagine if she would have had 9 more feet and retreated a few steps in the process!
PLEASE,......lets all not feel that if a BG gets within the "majical" 21 feet your gonna die. It WILL be bad,that's for sure. But you can survive. You can come thru this uncut and/or alive.
The video clips show the people with weapon in holster. Some have retention snap still snapped. (NOBODY(!) uses a holster with a retention strap on it for CC do they ???) The people in the video simply stand their flatfooted while waiting for the BG to arrive. This, in itself, is a extreme case of non-training. We all know and train differently than this,right ?? The "BG" in the clips obviously had formal training. Will the BG that attacks you be trained this well ?? Or have this much resolve to cut you??
If you find yourself in a situation like in the video,your in big trouble. Even worse,what if there were two BG's?? If you feel that things are gettin' this bad,go ahead and unholster if need be.
My having to explain myself to police afterwards would be incidential to being dead and someone else taking posession of my weapon.
Most importantly remember,we can survive this with proper training,equipment,and mindset.--------
Just beware complacency. Just beacause you don't SEE a knife dosn't mean he isn't armed with one. A well trained knife fighter is never going to let you see it until he's within striking distance. A good reason to keep your distance from people who don't "look" or "feel" right. It may be that survival sense trying to warn your concious brain. Also another reason to dislike crowds...
If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.
I think this simply shows how fast things can go bad on you. You are going to be hard pressed to draw and fire with accuracy within 21', which is the distance most self defense shootings happen. It's hard to have a completely accurate portrayl of an attack as the people in the video know what is about to happen to them. But it still shows I think very well how little time you have.
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Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
Utah Permit Certified Instructor
Well, I'm going to jump in with a rating of "BS" on the video because it was set up to "prove" something that the creator obviously already assumed.
I won't argue how quickly distance can be covered, but all that video proved to me is that the "professionals" in uniform had virtually no training whatsoever.
I see better defensive shooting from newbies at IDPA meets.
1. One thing that was proved beyond doubt was that thumb break holsters can kill you. It's too bad that "some" police departments mandate their use.
2. Let's talk about a "real" scenario where an officer is approached by or is approaching a suspect that HAS HIS HANDS HIDDEN as was "set up" in this video! (Give me a break!.. as if a cop would let a suspect get anywhere NEAR him/her with the suspects hands hidden.)
Any Houston, Texas police officer I know (and I know a couple) would have already had their weapon out and been shouting commands no matter how far away the perp was if they wouldn't show their hands. Smart (trained) officers always watch "the hands".
It was from the police I know personally that I myself learned to not worry about distracting movements from a potential attacker other than what the hands are doing.
3. Even in the video, look at all of the "scenarios" and imagine those officers drawing as they did but making a 1/2 hip shot like they should/would have in real life had they been properly trained. Evidently, the actors in that video have never even heard of a 1/2 hip shot and were told by the director exactly how they were to draw slow and stupid so they could "die" and therefore prove the directors flawed premise.
They wasted a lot of time sloooowwwlly bringing up their weapon to two handed Weaver while they could have gotten off the first 1/2 hip shot and kept shooting from there.
That's what I get out of it, and again, I don't argue how fast someone can approach from 7 or 12 or 21 or whatever feet.
It's just that this video is not a good example of how to handle it.
To see what a 1/2 hip shot looks like, here's another "set up" video from a movie. The first shot that Tom Cruise makes is a 1/2 hip shot, and then he pulls up to fire at the second perp.
The last shot is called a "taking care of business shot"... like they do in the movies.
We talked about this issue in these threads as well...
(I didn't feel like typing out a new response since I already posted in the aforementioned threads )
"Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina
If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.
One of the beautiful things about a person closing distance on you is that the person becomes an easier and easier target to hit. Given the same time constraints, it is easier to hit accurately at closer ranges than at more distant ranges.I think this simply shows how fast things can go bad on you. You are going to be hard pressed to draw and fire with accuracy within 21', which is the distance most self defense shootings happen.
Once again, this video shows nothing about 21 feet.