Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's scenario

This is a discussion on Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's scenario within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here is a scenario that Lt. Col. Dave Grossman posted about. Where is your mindset on this one? Because I see it as a case ...

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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's scenario

    Here is a scenario that Lt. Col. Dave Grossman posted about. Where is your mindset on this one? Because I see it as a case of mindset not ability. Would you take the shot or because his back is to you would you not be able to?


    Consider a paint bullet scenario that was given to sworn, veteran police officers in Nebraska. In the scenario, they were told that they had received an “officer needs help call,” with shots fired. When they got to the scene, they would find the officer down with the suspect pointing a gun at the officer’s head. “I’m going to kill him,” the suspect says. “I’m going to kill him.” The tricky part of this scenario was that the suspect had his back turned to the officer.When the officers were faced with this situation (one in which they were fully authorized to shoot the man), the majority would not fire, and would do so only after the suspect shot the officer in the head. A significant minority of officers would not even fire then, but would wait until the suspect pointed the weapon toward them. Of course then it would be an action/reaction situation, and the officers would probably lose.Waiting for the suspect to shoot the officer or point his weapon at you is not an action that saves lives. Warriors need to decide in advance, to the best of their ability, that they can do the right thing when the time comes. Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

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    I ran three different scenarios similar to this during tactical courses. In two of the three, I was able to quickly close and take the shots nearly point blank. An instructor was the bg in one of them, and he became very upset about my strategy. In the third, I was only able to close to about fifteen feet before taking the shot, which was still on target.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    Gun drawn, pointed at a fellow officers head, I'm going to drop the dirt bag and be justified in doing so. I'm not going to wait until a brother, or any person for that matter, gets shot before reacting.
    "I got a lot of problems with you people!" - Frank Costanza

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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    My thoughts are there is a lot of people who can not bring themselves to shot someone in the back without them knowing you are there. While this is something I've never done for real or in training can't say for sure how I would react. But in my mind setting here at the keyboard I would do as Mike said, close the best I could and place the shot just under the base of the skull cap. From the rear without saying a word. There is a time to talk and a time to do this is a time to do.

    In this scenario the key words are "(one in which they were fully authorized to shoot the man)" Make the decision right here and now to take the shot if found in that situation.
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    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

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    Distinguished Member Array airslot's Avatar
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    Since the BG has his back to me, he gets the last surprise of his crappy life. RIGHT NOW!!
    The situation will NEVER BE THE WAY YOU WANT, it WILL BE THE WAY IT IS. You must be FLEXIBLE ENOUGH TO ADAPT and just "DEAL WITH IT".

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    I'm calling 911 and being a good witness.

    What?
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    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
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    Thanks for sharing Bill MO

    This is a good one. It's about who you are ahead of time - not "what" or "who" you are about to become.

    Austin

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    Well if its a cop....???? But family, ya betch ya! (just kidding on the Cop thing.... Remember LEO, us 'law abiding and keeping oursleves squeaky clean on purpose Civilians' may be your best friends and allays when the SHTF).

    Combat situations are not always Civil, and Civil situations are not always Combat. One has to have judgement before unleashing.
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    "His back was to me".....
    Not a problem at all.
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    Nope. If I know the guy on the ground is a GG (cop or not), the BG is getting dropped, don't care what direction he is facing. And I can imagine myself sleeping like a baby afterward.
    As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you. -- Jeff Cooper

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    Why is there even a question as to the correct response! Drop him as quickly and mercilessly as possible...JMO
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    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

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    Just my thought on it, but no one should ever be comfortable with taking another life. That being said, if taking the BG's life to save the life of a GG, then you do what you must, from whatever position is available to you.
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    I gotta go with the crowd on this one, do what you must to save the GG.

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    I think the 'right' answer is pretty clear. The scenario seems to be more the results of a psychological experiment. The cops weren't psychologically ready to take that type of shot. You can see why! "Honor" is a ridiculously large portion of gun culture (and I like it that way), and some of that seems to be bleeding over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    My thoughts are there is a lot of people who can not bring themselves to shot someone in the back without them knowing you are there. While this is something I've never done for real or in training can't say for sure how I would react. But in my mind setting here at the keyboard I would do as Mike said, close the best I could and place the shot just under the base of the skull cap. From the rear without saying a word. There is a time to talk and a time to do this is a time to do.

    In this scenario the key words are "(one in which they were fully authorized to shoot the man)" Make the decision right here and now to take the shot if found in that situation.

    This is because of all the social engineering going on in policing these days(30yrs. or more) to the point that some officers are confused,
    and their heads filled with mush with ideas on how their supposed to understand the "feelings" of the BG, and what prompted the BG to go down this path of criminal behavoir, and how it must be societies fault that the poor BG is in this situation, where he feels betrayed enough,
    by the civilized world that he is now going to execute the
    very officer which represents the evil society which has wronged the poor BG at every turn of his life.................

    Me, I could pop a cap in his heiny faster than you could whistle Dixie.
    Last edited by oneshot; November 3rd, 2012 at 06:11 PM.
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