The OP described a scenario in the original post and purposely left out details to make the situation appear to be something that it was not. If the OP had described the scenario how he actually saw it and not as how he wanted the readers of this thread to see it, my original response would have been totally different.
The OP said this in his original post:
Right before he asked, "What would you do?"Quote:
When I get there I can see a BIG white man (6'3" 300+), cussing at this woman knocking stuff off the shelf & threatening to hurt her. (It really looked like it could go bad FAST!)
He left out the other details he witness...
It is kind of like saying, "I was just sitting there and all of a sudden I saw this big guy walk up to this woman and he starting beating her. What would you do?"Quote:
After a few seconds I realized the guy had some kind of mental illness and wanted his mom to buy something and she refused.
Then later I tell you that I was sitting in a theater and the big guy and the woman were actors in the movie I was watching.
Those are key details that change the story completely.
I do take offense to this blanket comment about NYC Police Officers.
I can't tell you the number of times I've read someone's post on this forum that said something like, "don't ever take your eye off of the BG to pick up the phone to call 911".
You never know when there might be something better for you to be doing with your time instead of talking to the 911 operator...such as saving someone's life.
Sorry, multi qoute is not working!
I'd quickly scan the people around me and I'd point to one of the more responsible looking adults and I'd give them the following command: "You! Call 911 immediately! Tell them they MUST send the police NOW! Will you do that for me?" Hopefully the first person I instruct responds with a yes. By doing this I can place my full concentration on where it needs to be.
Since he is already "threatening to hurt her" and "It really looked like it could go bad FAST!", I'd attempt to deescalate the situation while maintaining a safe distance. I'd shout from behind cover at the end of the aisle. I'd say something like, "STOP! STOP! STOP! The Police have been called! Please back away from one another! The police are on their way." Hopefully this will result in some sort of deescalation and we can all wait for the police to arrive without further incident. If it doesn't, I'd continue to say the same thing until the police arrive or until it became evident that physical harm was imminent.
CaveJoohnson is right LOL. Now, seriously. Just a point to consider. What would you do after your commands if the person did not comply?Keep asking others? You would also be seeking cover....Could you not have called 911 yourself and that way explain the details as you see them? Who knows what the dude or dudette is telling the 911 operator. If you want to be in control of the situation, be in control. Just imagine in this scenario what could happen:Quote:
Originally Posted by CaveJohnson
...sounds like the poorly acted CPR/AED training videos I've had to suffer through. They go "You! Call 911 now!" in a horribly fake way.
Dude/Dudette:911, ah, this guy was yelling at me to call you and now he is hiding at the end of the aile yelling at this fat dude who is yelling at this chick.....ah, excuse me, no, we are all just hanging out here. ...Ah, yes, that is correct, it is the Walmart that the manager has called. Thank you
Sounds like THAT could not happen? Be careful how other folks will react for you.
Run over to the sporting goods section, load up a paintball gun and empty it into him. The slimey blob would be crying after a few dozen hits. Keep firing. Cover him with foam packing peanuts or breadcrumbs. Roll him out the back door.
^^^^^^^^Thats not how I took his post..
I feel he was trying to get us to really assess the situation,understand it for what it is, and it sounded as though the info came to him piecemeal, just as he posted to us. He didn't have all the facts as soon as he turned down the aisle.
The OP also stated that there were other witnesses: this is who I'd instruct to call 911...someone who is also a witness to what is happening. If they say no, hopefully there are others who overheard me and will either step up and volunteer to make the call or will respond to my next question which would be something like, who here will call 911 for me? I would not call 911 myself unless or until the opportunity presented itself and it was safe to do so. Dialing a phone and speaking to a 911 operator is not the same as a LEO pressing a button and radioing for backup. These are two very different operations and should be treated as such. When and if a situation arises that requires my full attention, I don't want to be glancing down at my cell phone while I press 911 send and I don't want to be distracted by answering the 911 operator's questions. My focus needs to be on the situation in front of me so that I can act or react as need be.
If I'm shouting this: "STOP! STOP! STOP! The Police have been called! Please back away from one another! The police are on their way." at the BIG man that both me and the other witness just observed threatening to physically harm the woman and this witness who calls 911 after I instructed them to do so tells the 911 operator that I might be a BG in this situation then I can only hope that the LEOs who show up are a little more intelligent than the idiot witness who called 911. Hopefully the 911 operator is smart enough to ask the caller "What is the guy who told you to call 911 shouting?" and hopefully the caller is intelligent enough to respond with something like, "He is saying, 'STOP! STOP! STOP! The Police have been called! Please back away from one another! The police are on their way.' and he just keeps repeating that." Then hopefully the 911 operator asks the caller, "Who is he saying that to?" and hopefully the caller says something like, "he is saying it to the BIG man who is threatening to hurt the woman" and then gives a description of the two people involved in the altercation. Hopefully the LEOs will realize that the guy who is shouting "STOP! STOP! STOP! The Police have been called! Please back away from one another! The police are on their way." at the person/persons who are engaged in an altercation with one another is probably someone who is most likely saying what he is saying because he wants the altercation to stop.
I must be real silly to rely on the 911 operator and LEOs to do well what they are trained to do.
I do understand what you are trying to do. But I just can't get this comical picture out of my head:A man hiding behind cover where other folks are just standing around....sorry.
You could have said, "I would wait a few seconds and assess the situation to make sure there was not more to this situation than initially appeared."Quote:
He new this within "a few seconds", not minutes, "a few seconds":
I think the point of the post was that when you first come upon a situation, you have a very basic idea of what's going on, and what do you do at that point? Do you immediately react, or do you wait a bit longer to fully assess the situation? He did say he immediately thought it was a domestic husband/wife thing, but it was clear that that was before he actually went to go look. I think it was a good example of the importance of checking out all your surroundings (like seeing if someone else has called 911 already) and waiting just a minute until you're 100% sure of what's going on (as long as no one is in physical danger just yet). That's how I took it. I don't think he was trying to trick anyone.
This. The psychological dynamic is something to consider. My instructor was telling a story yesterday of a friend of his that witnessed a man beating the hell out of his girlfriend in the street outside his house. He called 9-1-1, then got his gun, told the man to stop, then the man charged him, and he shot him. The girl immediately told police, "This guy shot my boyfriend for no reason!" I think he may have been saved by that initial 9-1-1 call (and...she was covered in her own blood from her head getting bashed into a windshield), but it's a good reminder that some people's psyches are so messed up (or the situation is just more complicated that you originally think, like a mother and her mentally ill son) that they don't always want you to get involved. Something to consider.Quote:
I understand the feeling of not wanting to stand by while someone gets beat down, but this is another case where if you pull your gun, the mother will probably turn against you, just like a lot of battered women will. Ugly all around.