This is a discussion on The Ultimate Question,: What would YOU do If YOU got pulled over by a LEO? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Akachibisaru I have been reading all sorts of gun related matter for many years. I have seen the question bantered back and ...
Inform and keep your hands on the steering wheel until instructed otherwise. R
Smile. It makes people wonder what you are up to
Nebraska is a must inform state so that is what I would do.
I don't carry a gun to look for or start a fight. I carry one to finish a fight I never wanted to be in.
Revolvers, “more elegant weapons for a more civilized age.”
Our House Is Protected By The Good Lord And A gun. You Might Meet Both Of Them If You Show Up Inside My House Uninvited.
I am not pointing a finger at the OP in this thread but, it is a known fact that some people have a real problem with authority (in general) and do not like anybody talking to them in an authoritative tone.
Probably nobody really likes it but, nonetheless in such an encounter it is helpful to be able to discern what is often Standard Operating Procedure for a traffic stop when it becomes known that a firearm is present as VS an intentional attempt to demean or denigrate a citizen.
In the vast majority of cases the officer is not yelling at you because he doesn't LIKE you.
The raised voice and commanding tone is a tool used to take control of the scene.
Exactly the same way as if you were walking to your car in a dark empty parking lot and a complete stranger started to approach you and you didn't want him to.
You would raise your voice and belt out..."STAY WHERE YOU ARE! ~ DON'T COME ANY CLOSER!" or hopefully you would.
And then that unknown stranger would say..."Hey that wasn't very polite of you...you shouldn't have yelled at me."
So it would have been better in a similar instance if the officer issued the command like this:
"PRETTY PLEASE WITH CUPCAKE SPRINKLES ON IT....DON'T MOVE!"
"IF IT'S OK WITH YOU AND YOU DON'T MIND TOO VERY MUCH....KEEP YOUR HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM!"
I agree that tossing a firearm or a pistol magazine onto a car roof was not proper. Certainly if the OP suffered any scratches to the paint on his vehicle he would have been well within his rights to report it and have that damage repaired.
With regard to a pistol magazine - no pistol magazine is going to suffer damage getting tossed a foot or less onto a vehicle rooftop but, I agree that is not the point.
But, pretty much depending on how individual departments train their officers on how to handle an encounter such as a traffic stop when there is a firearm involved - I don't see any other really gross violations in this particular stop.
For sure it would be great if changes were made but, that needs to happen from the top down rather than from the cop up.
And additionally to answer the one comment above - For sure it is an extremely rare event but, there have been instances where a licensed firearm carry person has pulled, turned, used, a legally carried firearm on police officers.
Exactly how many times it has happened I couldn't say but, that does not alter the fact that it's not something that has never happened.
If I got pulled over, would not. ( we are not required) I would tell him if he asked. I try not to draw attention and avoid speeding. Speeding is like stupid tax, I don't need to pay any more.
I tell for two reasons:
1. In FL I don't have to inform unless asked. I'd much rather inform than have the LEO "discover" I was armed without his asking and then go through the whole shakedown routine. If I inform and the LEO wants to make an arse of himself, I'm all for complying and filing a complaint with the department afterwards about his behavior.
2. Out of FL, I don't want to tell the officer to wait while I run thru the list of "must inform" states. I just inform. But that assumes I've been stopped, which hasn't happened in many years.
Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield
I'm not required and a couple of months ago in Kentucky I did not. If he knew based on my DL or some other means, he never said a word and let me off with a warning. Did a field sobriety test for him as well. So if he knew I was a permit holder I'm pretty sure he would've said/done something before I got out of the car. (My gun was in the console because I can't carry at work and was on my way home).
was sober as a priest by the way. just really tired.
I rode on patrol with a sheriffs deputy buddy for 9 years in the hills of S. Indiana and since Indiana has a CCW law going back to 1934 and the hills of S. Indiana is a redneck area we dealt with armed persons all the time. In 9 years I NEVR NEVER EVER saw a motorist in a standard traffic stop treated the was the OP described.
Simple question to thread writer---Is that your real name? If it is, last or first, thiis can be part of the reason. Does not exactly sound like something he would be expecting and this could alert him in a "more cautious" way.
Leaving that aside, I live in a must inform state (South Carolina) but, as opposed to many on the forum who seem to embrace 2A in a more "comprehensive manner" I will do what the LEO asks of me almost regardless of what I believe the correct procedures are under what I believe the law says.
On most "everyday" scenarios, all I ever do is put myself in someone else's shoes --
If I'm going into a nasty part of town for some reason (and I'm in IL, so keep in mind that I can't even carry most of the time) I think "What would I do if I were an unarmed guy with somewhat limited mobility in the shoulders and a bad knee?" (which is all too close to the truth actually) and make decisions based on that.
If I get pulled over while carrying (again, obviously I'd be in another state) I have to put myself in the LEO's shoes -- If *I* were a LEO, one of the first things on my mind for the duration of the stop is if this guy is armed and what his intentions would be if he is. If the guy actually *tells* me that not only is he permitted to, but is indeed armed at that moment, that's going to tell me a whole lot about the guy I'm pulling over. Assuming he shows me that permit, I already know he's not a felon, he's most likely a responsible person who's gone through whatever background checks and what not that it takes to get that permit.
Short of some freaky situation that I haven't even thought of, I'd tell him, period. Again, this is just an "If I were..." thing, but I have to think that anyone who would surrender that information to me can't be all bad. THAT SAID: Because I can 'put myself' in that situation, I can also follow through and put myself in that situation with a potential perp trying to get me to relax my guard... To that end, I'd still be going with my gut. Still, I'd rather know -- So I'd rather tell.
NRA Life / Endowment UT, FL, passed and waiting for IL at the moment.
I haven't been stopped since getting my permit, but in all likelihood I will inform.
By the way, that is hardly the ultimate question, and this isn't the cover of a teen magazine.
"I rode on patrol with a sheriffs deputy buddy for 9 years in the hills of S. Indiana and since Indiana has a CCW law going back to 1934 and the hills of S. Indiana is a redneck area we dealt with armed persons all the time. In 9 years I NEVER NEVER EVER saw a motorist in a standard traffic stop treated the way the OP described."
They don't in my immediate area either. Usually they will say "Keep Your Hands Where I Can See Them." But, before the officer goes back to his cruiser there is a back up officer rolling up and keeping an eye on things.
MUCH depends on the State and exactly how the officers are trained to handle stops where a firearm is involved. Often they have little or no leeway.
"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." -- Benjamin Franklin
My first thought is "don't speed" while carrying. As CCW permit holders, we have a responsibility to obey all laws. We should even go beyond the letter of the law when necessary. The more responsibly we behave as individuals, the better it is for all CCW permit holders.
In Texas, I am obligated by law to show my permit if an LEO requests identification (http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/texas.pdf):
Sec. 411.205. Requirement to Display License.
If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.
Cogito, ergo armatum sum.
I think, therefore I am armed.
(Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)