When is okay to draw my weapon? What would you do in this situation

This is a discussion on When is okay to draw my weapon? What would you do in this situation within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by AngryBadger417 Thank you to everyone who replied! A few of you asked some questions and I will try to answer the ones ...

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Thread: When is okay to draw my weapon? What would you do in this situation

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryBadger417 View Post
    Thank you to everyone who replied! A few of you asked some questions and I will try to answer the ones I remember. Yes one of them was drunk two others were not, a lot of times the people they rob are not exactly small or easier prey, they were just crimes of opportunity or they were robbing anyone they could for drug money. I will look up brandishing laws I am not really sure what they are. And to the guy who said act how I would if didn't have a gun, that's not a good idea. I hate confrontation but If someone would threaten me and I didn't have a gun I would probably just punch the biggest guy within reach right in mouth and hopefully watch him drop. I used to box a lot and I have a nasty right hook. I am the type of person who would rather take a beating than look like a punk.
    once you are carrying, you have to remember, any fight you are in, is now a gun fight, because there is at least one gun present.
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    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

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  4. #18
    Member Array AngryBadger417's Avatar
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    This is the wv brandishing law


    WV Code § 61-7-11 :: §61-7-11. Brandishing deadly weapons; threatening or causing breach of the peace; criminal penalties. :: 2011 West Virginia Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia



    It shall be unlawful for any person armed with a firearm or other deadly weapon, whether licensed to carry the same or not, to carry, brandish or use such weapon in a way or manner to cause, or threaten, a breach of the peace. Any person violating this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than fifty nor more than one thousand dollars, or shall be confined in the county jail not less than ninety days nor more than one year, or both.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Well, a good guideline to go by is:

    Jeopardy
    Opportunity
    Ability

    Are you familiar with this?
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  6. #20
    Member Array TheConcealer's Avatar
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    Im also 21 and pretty new to carrying (only had my permit for about six months now), but you need to do what I did and still do to this day...

    Read STATE LAW's, any and all that are applicable that have to do with deadly force, firearms, etc. Now keep reading. READ BOOKS written by Massad Ayoob! TAKE CLASSES on concealed carry! TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN! Any free time I had I was/am either reading, training, or learning as much as I can.

    Its all about knowledge. Use it to your advantage, this way the gray line between when you can and cannot use force becomes slightly clearer and clearer.

    But seriously, read, train, and train as much as you can.
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  7. #21
    Member Array TheConcealer's Avatar
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    Not knowing your state laws, my reaction would be as follows.

    1-2 thugs, unarmed: I don't pull unless one of them verbally announces a robbery, or that they are about to assault me. If they don't verbally announce, the moment one of them takes physical action against me I will do everything I can to put holes in them.

    1-2 thugs, armed with some sort of weapon: The moment I feel they are acting in a threatening manner, approaching too closely with obvious violent intent, etc, I will pull.

    3+ thugs, armed or unarmed: As soon as they start to show aggression and intent to hurt me, I pull.
    Living a life free from fear, means being able to protect it at all times.
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  8. #22
    New Member Array cybercop106's Avatar
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    The most important aspect seems to be "breach of the peace". It appears that WV law defines that very broadly. Even insulting words can cause a breach of the peace. If a person's or group's actions cause you to feel threatened, and particularly if you warn them of this and/or attempt to remove yourself from the situation and they continue the behavior........... that would seem to constitute a breach of the peace. If it exists already, you can't "create" or "threaten" to create it by 'brandishing" your weapon. But be prepared (mentally) to use it if you have to. I'm not a lawyer, just a retired cop, so don't take this as legal advice! You probably want to review some WV cases of self-defense with a firearm and talk to an attorney who has litigation experience there. And training is an excellent suggestion, because CCW involves a lot of responsibility! Recognize that the permit class was only a primer!

  9. #23
    Member Array nathanjns's Avatar
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    I believe that you should not bring a gun out unless you have already made the decision to shoot, and then you should not hesitate. Producing a gun in the hope it will deter an attacker has immense negative potential. It can escalate an incident. Or you might encounter some idiot who will force you to shoot him once the gun enters the equation. There is no pat answer. For me it works this way..........If you think you have to kill someone, bring the gun out and do it. Otherwise - don't!

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Re: When is okay to draw my weapon? What would you do in this situation

    Quote Originally Posted by dangerranger View Post
    A Thug will not call the police... Ever! ... DR
    ... Except when they do. Saying they were attacked... Like this guy:
    http://somerville.m.wickedlocal.com/...tguid=Oc6RMGTD

    Or the guy in Texas, who had a CCW, a camcorder, and a whole bunch of CCW "patent" phrases. Like "I'm in fear of my life, they're coming to get me... I'm standing my ground!"

    Thugs you scare off with a gun may very well call 911, especially if they can make you look like the bad guy.

    CALL 911 FIRST!
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mg27 View Post
    I dont think the bad guy will report you to the police if you pull your weapon, as someone stated on another post, they want nothing to do with the police due to warrants ect.... Use good sense and defend yourself, but take suggestions of guys who have been in situations like that, mabey they can direct you, But every situation is different, comes down to good judgement.
    bad guys are often better liars - so yes they might call the cops and turn the tables. In general,without knowing local laws, IMO it is a bad idea to draw as a deterrent. The closest you should get is maybe lifting your cover garment to show you are armed. If you brandish you may end up with charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. If you draw you had better be prepared to shoot. Carrying is a complicated and significant responsibility that requires extensive legal knowledge and training. Good sense simply isn't enough.
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  12. #26
    Member Array macg19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheConcealer View Post
    Im also 21 and pretty new to carrying (only had my permit for about six months now), but you need to do what I did and still do to this day...

    Read STATE LAW's, any and all that are applicable that have to do with deadly force, firearms, etc. Now keep reading. READ BOOKS written by Massad Ayoob! TAKE CLASSES on concealed carry! TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN! Any free time I had I was/am either reading, training, or learning as much as I can.

    Its all about knowledge. Use it to your advantage, this way the gray line between when you can and cannot use force becomes slightly clearer and clearer.

    But seriously, read, train, and train as much as you can.
    good advice, just don't forget the Federal laws.
    "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangerranger View Post
    A Thug will not call the police... Ever! When its evident you are being targeted your hand should be on your pistol! You don't have to take it out and wave it, They know what you are doing. If they don't stop then pull it, and make ready to use it. If they are really intent on harming you they will be focused on your every move. If they suddenly veer away your spidey sense was right and they were targeting you. DR
    This information is not correct. Massad Ayoob has documented multiple instances in which the thug has called police first, before the actual victim, in his column in American Handgunner.
    macg19 and Secret Spuk like this.

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    A lot of people here seem to have very unhealthily steep dropoffs on their use of force continuums.

    1. Use of deadly force and the threat to use deadly force are not legally, morally, or practically identical. Some things justify drawing a firearm (being in reasonable fear of an offense against your person or property) but not shooting a firearm (unless the feared offense occurs and escalates to a level where you would be in reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm- or whatever the legal standard and language is in your state). To make is as clear as possible, because I beat this zombie horse all the time, in most jurisdictions you would be justified in drawing or displaying your legally carried firearm to ward off a strongarm robber (that is, a person who demands money through intimidation but does not present a deadly weapon). You would not, however, be justified in shooting said robber unless you could articulate why you felt in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm (or again, whatever the language is in your state). Another scenario: You come out of a store at night to find someone busily trying to jimmy his way past the lock on your driver's side door. You would probably be legally justified in confronting this person with a drawn firearm (Whether this is prudent is up for debate) because they are in the process of committing a felony against your property. You would not be justified in actually shooting them unless they actually made a credible threat likely to result in death or great bodily harm.

    2. In the scenario the OP described, there are many other options besides brandishing a firearm. If you are walking down the street and are approached by a small group of people, you can move to the other side of the street. Or go back into your place of employment or another open and occupied building. If they follow you, you can verbally tell them to leave you alone. If they persist, you can say that you're calling the police, and that you don't want any trouble, but you are armed. None of which involves brandishing your gun.

    3. The best way to know when you should draw your weapon is when- in whatever situation you find yourself- you know immediately beyond a shadow of a doubt that whatever happens if you DON'T draw your weapon is going to be worse than what happens if you DO. And that's because a gun never solves problems, it only gives you a chance to make a fatal problem less bad. If after the fact you can then articulate specifically WHY you felt that way (assuming you are reasonable), then you're legally justified just about anywhere.
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  15. #29
    Member Array AngryBadger417's Avatar
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    Thanks for your input guys! I work 2-3 miles from my house and sometimes I walk ( whenever my girlfriend also works, I would rather walk home then risk the chance of her having to walk home if she gets off work before me ) when I walk home it's usually back roads through the city, so if I would get robbed there isn't anywhere to go from several hundred yards, this is why I asked! Looks like i am going to have to start reading Massad Ayoob
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  16. #30
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamRudolph View Post
    2. In the scenario the OP described, there are many other options besides brandishing a firearm. If you are walking down the street and are approached by a small group of people, you can move to the other side of the street. Or go back into your place of employment or another open and occupied building. If they follow you, you can verbally tell them to leave you alone. If they persist, you can say that you're calling the police, and that you don't want any trouble, but you are armed. None of which involves brandishing your gun.


    .
    In the OP's scenario, he is being robbed by more than one person.....hard to just cross the street by that point.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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