This is a discussion on When is okay to draw my weapon? What would you do in this situation within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 9MMare In the OP's scenario, he is being robbed by more than one person.....hard to just cross the street by that point. ...
Another important thing here is that I think the OP's justification to draw goes up given circumstantial evidence- primarily the knowledge that there have been multiple robberies involving potential great bodily injury being done to the victim by small groups of criminals. That would lead a reasonable person to conclude that being accosted in a threatening manner by a small group of people at night is starting in on the same M.O., which helps satisfy the "Imminent Fear of Great Bodily Harm or Death" standard.
Note to self: The only way to win is not to play.
Living a life free from fear, means being able to protect it at all times.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Berating him for not being more aware is not really needed at this point.
And some of us have been supporting your 2nd point very well for him, yet you chastise............
Fortune favors the bold.
Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.
The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)
Know your state's statutes on use-of-force and firearms, to a "T". The West Virginia use-of-force statutes are detailed in WVC §55-7. The §55-7-22 statute is at the heart of your question about justifiability, though all the other relevant statutes will of course also apply to you.
Check: HandgunLaw.us, for a starting place for investigating the WV statutes. Use the PDF document you find there as a springboard for digging into each and every one of the relevant statutes that'll apply to you.Originally Posted by WVC §55-7-22
If you're able, speak with a competent attorney who is well-versed in defending self-defense cases and knowledgeable about use-of-force and firearms in your state, preferably before you are ever involved in any situation.
Check out ACLDN, the Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network.
It ain't all peaches 'n' cream, obviously. Even if you survive a deadly situation it might well break you financially and socially, irrespective of whether you were technically right in doing so. But still, you're the citizen; the statutes are based on the "reasonable man" standard; and you yourself get to decide (on the instant) where the line is, though the DA, Grand Jury and potentially a group of 12 of your "peers" get to determine the reasonableness of those actions afterwards.
Welcome to the high-responsibility world of carrying a deadly defensive weapon.
Generally, if you are in fear for your life given the circumstances (outnumbered, demonstrated hostile intent by the other party/parties, they have a weapon (blade/blunt instrument/gun)) and the laws of your state (castle doctrine, duty to retreat), you may defend yourself accordingly.
Seek firearms training.
Magazine <> clip - know the difference
martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
I.e., I think it's important to consider the scenario of "I am robbed by multiple people while walking home from work" in the light of the fact that this has apparently happened to multiple people of whom the OP is aware. But I think that scenario should also include "How did these multiple people end up in my face?"
I don't intend to berate him. After all, this entire thing is really hypothetical, so berating him for not doing something in response to an act that hasn't happened wouldn't mean a whole lot. So I'm sorry if the OP took my wording to be in that tone. I would encourage the OP to expand his scenario all the way back to him leaving work, or earlier, even.Originally Posted by 9MMare
Fair enough. It's just that I see so many of these threads, and there's always someone who comes in and says that you should never draw unless you're going to shoot or something like that, sometimes I forget to look at the thread in context and realize that group is a distinct minority.Originally Posted by 9MMare
On the other hand, they also know that you are prepared to escalate force in self defense. The more common occurrence would be that the criminal risk/benefit analysis now goes from "There's three of us and one of him, let's beat him!" to "He has a gun! Even if we all have guns, I don't want to catch a bullet, and his wallet isn't worth that risk."Originally Posted by TheConcealer
I think you're right when you say that there's a potential down side to a verbal warning, but I think you're forgetting the potential upside- not having to draw or use your gun at all.
Note to self: The only way to win is not to play.
Like most places local laws are what is to obeyed ,once threat is over cannot shoot the perps in the back,needs to be cutndry otherwise like you said use fists as apparently not life threatening to you.That is how a pa would look at it.
Also depends upon weather youve also had a tad to drink as well,and to some degree in west by god virginia if the local cops know and or like you.
In Huntington they still give elevator rides,wont be a bruise one that shows.MU does have a gun policy,meaning none or theirs.It is state property,most of the others the same be it morganhole or charlie.Odds are be one of their favorite football players and you would be swept under the rug.Unless you can play their position and better at it.
Its $ ,they bring it in you dont.3 of the number 2 string would beat your word any day.
If at all possible walk away.
That same Mr Ayoob also said if you shoot some one your life is over more or less.
I have a cc permit do carry,try to forget its there,just there in case I need it,and then only if i feel I cannot do anything else and my life is in danger.It isnt in danger from two drunks and another guy having sat night fun,seeking fun money,can talk or walk my way out of that.Im 130 lbs sopping wet,so physical has little to do with it.Think, they want it to be quick and easy.Nor are fists always right merely push button on car remote lights and horn if close,yes just like a woman would.Not pull a gun,unless it was life threatening.These are mostly college kids who dont want publicity,or a record.Never ever show it ,unless you intend to use it,could also if know you carry get a free pistol.
I think asking yourself when is it ok and legal to draw is always a good thing to think about so you have some idea what you plan to do if something should happen, but no two situations are just alike and each have different factors. Obviously we all hope it never happens but if something ever did happen I think you would just know when it was time.
"These days I go down to Wal-Mart and they sell 'em in the back.
Some people wanna take 'em away, why don't you go bust them boys that's sellin' crack.
Guns, whether Remingtons 'er Glocks.
Come on man it ain't like I'm a slingin' 'em on the block." - Justin Moore
I believe in a lot of states this is still considered brandishing. In Michigan displaying a weapon in a manner meant to intimidate is considered brandishing even if you do not touch the weapon. The standard movie scene where the bad guy pulls open his jacket to show the gun in his waiste band or shoulder holster is considered brandishing because it's meant to intimidate.
That being said if I was in a situation where I know that a couple of guys were about to jump me and I was certain I was in danger of serious injury or death I would lift my cover, and if need be continue in a smooth fluid motion draw my pistol. I then proceed to acquire a sight picture, again hopefully they disengage, if not I pull the trigger, moving from one to another until they are down or are retreating.
I just recently came across this post and see that it's up to three pages already. Anyway, here is an excellent post, "Street Robberies and You," written by a former cop who worked the mean streets.
Excerpt that addresses tho OP's question: "WHEN TO DRAW -- ...Suppose two guys are approaching you in a parking lot and do the classic fan out maneuver. You indicate you have a weapon by clearing your gun hand and fanning your jacket at them. They are not discouraged. DRAW!
I am not saying you should pull your gun out, assume a Weaver stance, and scream "That's close enough mother*****s!" What I am saying is draw your gun and hold it beside your leg as you start to move to cover. I am very fond of telephone poles. Anything will do though. They will see this. They will remember they have to be somewhere else. They will not call the police.
Then you can just put your gun back in the holster and go back to whatever you were doing like nothing happened. Why? Because nothing did happen. A happening is when shots are fired.
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
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To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
- Don't do stupid things;
- Don't hang out with stupid people;
- Don't go stupid places; and
- Don't be out at stupid times.
By virtue of your job and her job (hey, it *IS* nice to have work), you're kinda stuck with the stupid times part. Walking home (you or her) puts you in stupid places. Instead, the person getting off early drives to other person's place of work and the two drive home together.