Curious... is there ever a time to draw, but not fire?
This is a discussion on Curious... is there ever a time to draw, but not fire? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think drawing with no intention of firing and using the gun to just de-escalate the situation sounds a lot like brandishing. If there is ...
November 20th, 2012 04:49 AM
I think drawing with no intention of firing and using the gun to just de-escalate the situation sounds a lot like brandishing. If there is just cause to draw- meaning you are in danger then the draw is justifiable. If you are drawing because you think that will fix the situation, that to me is brandishing.
I do agree that if you draw and do not have to use your gun since the threat is gone that is acceptable. I would hope a BG having a gun drawn on him would be enough to stop the threat, if it is not I would be ready to shoot, but I would not pull it hoping that would be enough.
It seems to be a fine line, but I have known some people with guns that feel like all they have to do is just pull it and nothing more- if the situation is dire enough to pull it that is one thing, but thats not always the case with everyone.
November 20th, 2012 04:49 AM
November 20th, 2012 05:43 AM
Only if the threat isn't legitimate. Compare any statute on brandishing/menacing you like to the corresponding use-of-force statutes.
Originally Posted by TKshooter
Personally, I would MUCH rather deescalate a deadly situation away from something requiring the death of a person, if it's at all possible, even if what does it is merely the firm showing the assailant that there are no more rolls of the dice for him. Deescalation isn't bad. It's just that whatever steps are taken need to be fully justifiable.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
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November 20th, 2012 08:56 AM
It isn't brandishing if, when I draw, I'm justified to shoot. If my justification to shoot happens to disappear at the presentation of my leveled muzzle, even better. My responsibility to myself & my family is to eliminate the threat. Sometimes the threat is eliminated before...the trigger is pulled.
There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.
November 20th, 2012 09:25 AM
Ok, I know most of us are not LEOs but I notice on the "COPS" episodes that the LEO will draw their weapon when approaching a percived dangerous situation. I would think it would be better to have your weapon in hand, but out of sight and then putting it away if the threat goes away...
November 20th, 2012 09:37 AM
I will not draw with the idea of scaring the BG off. I will only draw my gun if I intend to fire. However, if the drawing of my weapon causes the BG to decide to turn and run, he's free to go.
Originally Posted by TheConcealer
Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.
NRA Life Member
November 20th, 2012 09:38 AM
Well, I've personally witnessed over the years working in Newark.......LEO's draw their handguns and hold them at their side / leg prior to an incident.......is there a technical name for this position....?
November 20th, 2012 10:10 AM
That is really a judgement that you will have to make IN the situation in a split second. When in a situation you should try to draw and move to cover, so to say that you need to fire as soon as you draw would be mis-leading, however you may be presented with that type of situation and you would need to be prepared. Draw to cover yourself or your family and move to a safe place will be your best friend if that possibility exists. Think on this. If an LEO shot everyone that they drew their weapons on there would be a lot less dirt bags on the streets these days.
"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Third President of the United States
November 20th, 2012 11:27 AM
This is interesting, I guess I hadn't rhought about announcing your armed. I suppose the down size is now the other person can make a calm call to 911 and accuse you of threatening them or brandishing. The police show up, he walks them over and points you out to them and sure enough you have a weapon so he must be the one telling the truth. Could go bad for you since he gets his story in to the police first.
Originally Posted by TheConcealer
November 20th, 2012 12:05 PM
I think you should be prepared to fire if you plan to carry. But I think there are several steps of threat and several steps before fireing.
1-verbally a avoid confrontation. (I don't want any problems)
2-show your gun (hand on weapon)
Of course this may not be possible if someone just comes in with a gun or knife right at you (like the theatre or school shootings). Then it's just pull and fire.
November 20th, 2012 12:34 PM
LEO's, by the nature of their jobs, are obligated to approach lethal force situations, where civilians are obligated to move away from lethal force situations.... Since he's duty-bound to move into danger, the very least he should be allowed to do is have his gun ready as he approaches the threat...
Originally Posted by Ksgunner
November 20th, 2012 01:00 PM
My opinions don't always parallel ccw9mm's, but he's dead on with this posting. Drawing and firing are not synomonous.
Originally Posted by ccw9mm
The very last thing I want to do is pull that trigger and take a life. But I will if forced. If stuffing my .45 in a BG's face makes him drop his weapon and a load--mission accomplished! But make no mistake: I can pull the trigger if need be, and I will pull the trigger if the BG insists on forcing that response. I'd be just as happy explaining to the LEOs why I shot someone as I would be listening to some BG explain why I held him at gunpoint and why the air is so foul.
Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
"For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield
November 20th, 2012 01:04 PM
I totally agree with you man...
Originally Posted by GunTrooper
November 20th, 2012 01:36 PM
Yes. Been there and done that.
"Marines don't surrender-they win or die." from Brute
November 20th, 2012 02:09 PM
Your gun is there to stop the THREAT of bodily harm. If simply drawing does that (like the BGs run away) then there is no need to fire. However, if you do draw you gun, you had damn sure be ready to use it, if necessary.
November 20th, 2012 03:38 PM
I think that scenario is only likely in the event that a CCW permit holder grossly overreacts to something innocuous. Criminals have called the police before, but the odds that they would do so is probably pretty low, and it's even lower odds that both of you would stick around to have a conversation with the police in which the responding officer finds a weapon on you and nothing suspicious on the perpetrator. Additionally, any time you have to threaten the use of force, you should be on the 911 line as soon as the danger is over, so while there may be a race to the phone, it's one you can easily win as well.
Originally Posted by TedBeau
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