Curious... is there ever a time to draw, but not fire?

This is a discussion on Curious... is there ever a time to draw, but not fire? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think drawing with no intention of firing and using the gun to just de-escalate the situation sounds a lot like brandishing. If there is ...

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Thread: Curious... is there ever a time to draw, but not fire?

  1. #16
    Member Array TKshooter's Avatar
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    I think drawing with no intention of firing and using the gun to just de-escalate the situation sounds a lot like brandishing. If there is just cause to draw- meaning you are in danger then the draw is justifiable. If you are drawing because you think that will fix the situation, that to me is brandishing.

    I do agree that if you draw and do not have to use your gun since the threat is gone that is acceptable. I would hope a BG having a gun drawn on him would be enough to stop the threat, if it is not I would be ready to shoot, but I would not pull it hoping that would be enough.

    It seems to be a fine line, but I have known some people with guns that feel like all they have to do is just pull it and nothing more- if the situation is dire enough to pull it that is one thing, but thats not always the case with everyone.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKshooter View Post
    I think drawing with no intention of firing and using the gun to just de-escalate the situation sounds a lot like brandishing.
    Only if the threat isn't legitimate. Compare any statute on brandishing/menacing you like to the corresponding use-of-force statutes.

    Personally, I would MUCH rather deescalate a deadly situation away from something requiring the death of a person, if it's at all possible, even if what does it is merely the firm showing the assailant that there are no more rolls of the dice for him. Deescalation isn't bad. It's just that whatever steps are taken need to be fully justifiable.
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    It isn't brandishing if, when I draw, I'm justified to shoot. If my justification to shoot happens to disappear at the presentation of my leveled muzzle, even better. My responsibility to myself & my family is to eliminate the threat. Sometimes the threat is eliminated before...the trigger is pulled.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Ksgunner's Avatar
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    Ok, I know most of us are not LEOs but I notice on the "COPS" episodes that the LEO will draw their weapon when approaching a percived dangerous situation. I would think it would be better to have your weapon in hand, but out of sight and then putting it away if the threat goes away...

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheConcealer View Post
    I hear a lot of differing opinions on whether you should draw ONLY if you intend to fire, and others say there are instances where a draw and no fire will defuse the situation allowing yourself and the BG to go separate ways.

    Thoughts?
    I will not draw with the idea of scaring the BG off. I will only draw my gun if I intend to fire. However, if the drawing of my weapon causes the BG to decide to turn and run, he's free to go.
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    Well, I've personally witnessed over the years working in Newark.......LEO's draw their handguns and hold them at their side / leg prior to an incident.......is there a technical name for this position....?

  8. #22
    Member Array Zombie57's Avatar
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    That is really a judgement that you will have to make IN the situation in a split second. When in a situation you should try to draw and move to cover, so to say that you need to fire as soon as you draw would be mis-leading, however you may be presented with that type of situation and you would need to be prepared. Draw to cover yourself or your family and move to a safe place will be your best friend if that possibility exists. Think on this. If an LEO shot everyone that they drew their weapons on there would be a lot less dirt bags on the streets these days.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheConcealer View Post
    Right, im not advocating or implying I would like to, or intend to fire after the threat no longer existed because I wouldn't. But more specifically I have heard some make statements, for example, that they would draw on an unarmed assailant approaching with clear intent to do harm, verbally.

    And in other cases, which I don't agree with, i've read comments where some CC'ers would announce they are armed, which to me is nearly the same as drawing and not firing (not legally speaking though since one would involve brandishing).

    I guess the question put more specifically is can you envision a situation where you might draw and not fire purposely, or where drawing when you weren't committed to shooting would be beneficial?
    This is interesting, I guess I hadn't rhought about announcing your armed. I suppose the down size is now the other person can make a calm call to 911 and accuse you of threatening them or brandishing. The police show up, he walks them over and points you out to them and sure enough you have a weapon so he must be the one telling the truth. Could go bad for you since he gets his story in to the police first.

  10. #24
    Member Array wingit's Avatar
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    I think you should be prepared to fire if you plan to carry. But I think there are several steps of threat and several steps before fireing.

    1-verbally a avoid confrontation. (I don't want any problems)
    2-show your gun (hand on weapon)
    3-pull gun
    4-pull trigger!

    Of course this may not be possible if someone just comes in with a gun or knife right at you (like the theatre or school shootings). Then it's just pull and fire.

  11. #25
    Member Array GunTrooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ksgunner View Post
    ....on the "COPS" episodes that the LEO will draw their weapon when approaching a percived dangerous situation. I would think it would be better to have your weapon in hand, but out of sight and then putting it away if the threat goes away...
    LEO's, by the nature of their jobs, are obligated to approach lethal force situations, where civilians are obligated to move away from lethal force situations.... Since he's duty-bound to move into danger, the very least he should be allowed to do is have his gun ready as he approaches the threat...

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Sure: when the dire threat ceases after having merely drawn the gun. Seems clear that firing beyond that point becomes unwarranted and unjustifiable. It might very well be the shot that "kills" you, legally speaking.

    My view: that I'd better not draw unless I am prepared to have to fire if need be. Big, big difference.

    The whole point is to stop the deadly threat against us. Once that threat has evaporated, it's hard to argue that there's any continuing justification to shoot a person. At that point, it becomes retribution, not stopping the threat. And I can't think of any statute in any state that allows one to do that, no matter how "chemical-dumped" or angry we happen to be.
    My opinions don't always parallel ccw9mm's, but he's dead on with this posting. Drawing and firing are not synomonous.

    The very last thing I want to do is pull that trigger and take a life. But I will if forced. If stuffing my .45 in a BG's face makes him drop his weapon and a load--mission accomplished! But make no mistake: I can pull the trigger if need be, and I will pull the trigger if the BG insists on forcing that response. I'd be just as happy explaining to the LEOs why I shot someone as I would be listening to some BG explain why I held him at gunpoint and why the air is so foul.
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  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Ksgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunTrooper View Post
    LEO's, by the nature of their jobs, are obligated to approach lethal force situations, where civilians are obligated to move away from lethal force situations.... Since he's duty-bound to move into danger, the very least he should be allowed to do is have his gun ready as he approaches the threat...
    I totally agree with you man...

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    Yes. Been there and done that.
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  15. #29
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    Your gun is there to stop the THREAT of bodily harm. If simply drawing does that (like the BGs run away) then there is no need to fire. However, if you do draw you gun, you had damn sure be ready to use it, if necessary.
    Ksgunner likes this.

  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    This is interesting, I guess I hadn't rhought about announcing your armed. I suppose the down size is now the other person can make a calm call to 911 and accuse you of threatening them or brandishing. The police show up, he walks them over and points you out to them and sure enough you have a weapon so he must be the one telling the truth. Could go bad for you since he gets his story in to the police first.
    I think that scenario is only likely in the event that a CCW permit holder grossly overreacts to something innocuous. Criminals have called the police before, but the odds that they would do so is probably pretty low, and it's even lower odds that both of you would stick around to have a conversation with the police in which the responding officer finds a weapon on you and nothing suspicious on the perpetrator. Additionally, any time you have to threaten the use of force, you should be on the 911 line as soon as the danger is over, so while there may be a race to the phone, it's one you can easily win as well.
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