Curious... is there ever a time to draw, but not fire?

Curious... is there ever a time to draw, but not fire?

This is a discussion on Curious... is there ever a time to draw, but not fire? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I hear a lot of differing opinions on whether you should draw ONLY if you intend to fire, and others say there are instances where ...

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Thread: Curious... is there ever a time to draw, but not fire?

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    Member Array TheConcealer's Avatar
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    Curious... is there ever a time to draw, but not fire?

    I hear a lot of differing opinions on whether you should draw ONLY if you intend to fire, and others say there are instances where a draw and no fire will defuse the situation allowing yourself and the BG to go separate ways.

    Thoughts?
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Sure: when the dire threat ceases after having merely drawn the gun. Seems clear that firing beyond that point becomes unwarranted and unjustifiable. It might very well be the shot that "kills" you, legally speaking.

    I hear a lot of differing opinions on whether you should draw ONLY if you intend to fire ...
    My view: that I'd better not draw unless I am prepared to have to fire if need be. Big, big difference.

    The whole point is to stop the deadly threat against us. Once that threat has evaporated, it's hard to argue that there's any continuing justification to shoot a person. At that point, it becomes retribution, not stopping the threat. And I can't think of any statute in any state that allows one to do that, no matter how "chemical-dumped" or angry we happen to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheConcealer View Post
    I hear a lot of differing opinions on whether you should draw ONLY if you intend to fire, and others say there are instances where a draw and no fire will defuse the situation allowing yourself and the BG to go separate ways.

    Thoughts?
    Lots of things can change in that second or so between the decision to draw and actually bringing the gun to bear on target. Pulling the trigger may or may not still be merited.
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    ccw9mm nailed it.

    If you draw, you need to be ready to kill.

    If you dont need to kill, then dont.
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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Sure: when the dire threat ceases after having merely drawn the gun. Seems clear that firing beyond that point becomes unwarranted and unjustifiable. It might very well be the shot that "kills" you, legally speaking.



    My view: that I'd better not draw unless I am prepared to have to fire if need be. Big, big difference.

    The whole point is to stop the deadly threat against us. Once that threat has evaporated, it's hard to argue that there's any continuing justification to shoot a person. At that point, it becomes retribution, not stopping the threat. And I can't think of any statute in any state that allows one to do that, no matter how "chemical-dumped" or angry we happen to be.
    Couldn't be said any better than this.
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    Member Array TheConcealer's Avatar
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    Right, im not advocating or implying I would like to, or intend to fire after the threat no longer existed because I wouldn't. But more specifically I have heard some make statements, for example, that they would draw on an unarmed assailant approaching with clear intent to do harm, verbally.

    And in other cases, which I don't agree with, i've read comments where some CC'ers would announce they are armed, which to me is nearly the same as drawing and not firing (not legally speaking though since one would involve brandishing).

    I guess the question put more specifically is can you envision a situation where you might draw and not fire purposely, or where drawing when you weren't committed to shooting would be beneficial?
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Member Array TheConcealer's Avatar
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    And this has nothing to do with hesitation to not shoot, or being unsure of whether you would actually fire if need be, only if there was a situation where the draw without immediate intent to fire would do some good, since I have read posts here by some saying they would do this.
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    Member Array BamaAlum97's Avatar
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    Curious... is there ever a time to draw, but not fire?

    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    My view: that I'd better not draw unless I am prepared to have to fire if need be. Big, big difference.
    ^ This

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheConcealer View Post
    But more specifically I have heard some make statements, for example, that they would draw on an unarmed assailant approaching with clear intent to do harm, verbally.
    You mean, a situation in which an aggressive assailant that is showing clear intent to do harm, but who hasn't yet displayed some separate man-made weaponry of any kind? Who's to say he's unarmed? Him?

    There's being prepared to respond if need be (ie, ensuring one's got the effective tool for the situation), there's responding to the dire threat once it has become dangerous enough to justify something beyond merely being armed (ie, hand on the gun, drawing, or similar), and then there's actually firing.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheConcealer View Post
    I guess the question put more specifically is can you envision a situation where you might draw and not fire purposely, or where drawing when you weren't committed to shooting would be beneficial?
    Sure. BTDT myself, once. Had two aggressive assailants pairing up to attack me in a dark parking lot. They had split up, with the second guy swinging around beyond my sight until he was off to my right (in the darkness). The lead guy approached across the lane (in the lot) making it clear he was going to attack me. With his cohort right there, rapidly approaching, it was hard to mistake the situation for anything else, given the manifest intent and look in his eye. Unmistakable. At that moment, I drew and suggested that he and his cohort rethink their position. They immediately both broke off the attack and disappeared into the darkness. I was fully committed to stopping their attack on me. Given the immediacy of their halting the attack, I saw zero justification for firing anyway. Though, had it become necessary, I believe I'd have had no qualms over doing everything necessary to stop them, fully committed as I was to avoid being robbed; which I had already done, by the way, merely by drawing and standing firm.
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Member Array TheConcealer's Avatar
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    Ahh yes, ccw9mm thats exactly the kind of scenario I was looking for. Just the fact that you felt giving away your element of surprise by drawing, was acceptable in that you made the (correct) decision that the draw would hopefully change their minds anyway. Thank you.
    Living a life free from fear, means being able to protect it at all times.
    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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    Member Array TheConcealer's Avatar
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    And as to your first comment about an unarmed assailant having shown no weapon, but being aggressive and meaning to do harm, I would have trouble with it. I completely agree he may be armed and whether he is or not, the fact he is threatening me in such a way I feel my life is in danger, I would like to fire. However, look at the Trayvon Martin case... unarmed, and as far as the evidence goes so far he had Zimmerman knocked to the ground and was beating him from above, yet look where Zimmerman is today. Unfortunate, if no new evidence turns up showing more of Trayvon's innocence.
    Living a life free from fear, means being able to protect it at all times.
    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheConcealer View Post
    Ahh yes, ccw9mm thats exactly the kind of scenario I was looking for. Just the fact that you felt giving away your element of surprise by drawing, was acceptable in that you made the (correct) decision that the draw would hopefully change their minds anyway. Thank you.
    Oh, they were surprised alright. I gave away nothing. They'd thought they had me cornered. Had it gone on another ~2sec, they'd have gotten to me. The only thing lost was their mistaken sense of felonious superiority, and possibly a few quarters for washing out the stains in their BVD's.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Senior Member Array marcclarke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheConcealer View Post
    I hear a lot of differing opinions on whether you should draw ONLY if you intend to fire, and others say there are instances where a draw and no fire will defuse the situation allowing yourself and the BG to go separate ways.

    Thoughts?
    Draw if you think you may have to fire. Be ahead of the power curve. Don't brandish your weapon. It is perfectly reasonable to draw your weapon and keep it concealed beneath your coat or behind your leg. If the situation defuses you walk away and no one is the wiser that you had a firearm ready to go.

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    Senior Member Array marcclarke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    If you dont need to kill, then dont.
    "don't"?

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