When would you use non-lethal alternatives? i.e. OC spray?

I think that it is a viable option to fill the void in the force continuum below that of lethal force. One, in many states, a (simple) assault, such as pushing, grabbing, hitting, blocking your path, etc, without some other does not justify a lethal force response. Two, if one has deployed a non lethal option and an aggressor then escalates their threat, you will have both taken a prudent non lethal step to evade and avoid as well as given yourself concrete confirmation of their harmful intentions.

I'm not trying to trivialize a serious question, but I was once a cross-country bicyclist. For dog chase defense, we kept a small squirt gun tucked in our right leg sock-top full of lemon juice concentrate. I've never seen a dog, no matter how big & bad, take 2-3 shots in the mouth & eyes without changing his mind. I've watched it work dozens of times. When my daughter went to college (no weapons in the dorm) she filled a long-stroke spray bottle with the stuff. Her male friends doubted the effectiveness and one brazenly volunteered as a guinea pig. She said it dropped him blind, crying like a baby. It's about as eco-freindly and non-aggressive as a Green Peace Rally. Just an idea. :image035:

Bottom line on OC, it is an option with far less serious legal consequences when used than
any other form of SD. You might still get charged with assault, but it won't be assault with a deadly
weapon.

Another advantage comes when compared with H2H; stand off and less chance of getting
harmed.

Every situation is different and every adversary is different, but if in a tight spot OC beats the heck
out of other choices.

Take for example the case we don't discuss here. Maybe the gun wouldn't have been used if
H2H skills were present. Better yet, maybe pepper would have broken up the encounter before it got to
where anyone felt their life was in danger.

OC is a good option to have, just don't be sucked into the belief that it will work on everyone. I've seen guys with enough OC on their face to appear like they ran a marathon, eyes still wide open, breathing normal. Be prepared to progress to other options

Quote:

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Originally Posted by archer51

Trust me, a knife is definitely considered a lethal weapon. Use it in a situation where lethal force is not warranted a DA will have no hesitation in charging you with assault with a deadly weapon.

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I was referring to the "IT," my OC spray, as the best alternative to my lethal, my knife. Misunderstanding I think.

Yes, I started carrying spray shortly after I began thinking about carrying a hand gun for personal protection. My thought was spray first, disengage from the situation, get out of danger from there. I carry Sabre CS Tear Gas/Red Pepper PDS. as carried by the the NYPD, " Making grown men cry since 1978". If it is good enough for those brave men and women of the NYPD, I figure it is good enough for me.

Fist fight = spray and run, maybe call cops.
Lethal fight = shoot, call cops.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marcclarke

Thus the recommendation for a stream rather than a spray or fog O.C. dispenser. Wind really pushes a spray or a fog back into your face. A stream is far less susceptible to blow-back than a spray or a fog.

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And, with a 9mm, you don't have to worry about which way the wind is blowing. Your 9mm won't spray back in your face...but you have to be quicker than the BG.

At various times, I carry OC (OC and CS are, respectively, Pepper Spray and Tear Gas, not "Open Carry") as well as an ASP baton. The deterrence of a baton or OC is often enough to cause a would-be aggressor to change their mind and go elsewhere, without the need to sweat a charge for brandishing or pointing and presenting, which you may face if you draw but don't shoot someone. The gun is the absolute last resort. The pepper spray or baton can be carried in places that don't allow a gun, and are very handy for situations like pushy drunks at a club or bar for example, or really anywhere to be honest. In my line of work we go through pepper spray like water, breaking up fights at clubs in the parking lots. All of these tools are force multipliers, just like a tac light with a strobe function can be. All of these tools can give you an advantage in a confrontation, and any advantage is a good one.