Defensive Carry banner

When would you use non-lethal alternatives? i.e. OC spray?

2K views 23 replies 19 participants last post by  GlassWolf 
#1 ·
I started carrying OC spray recently and am wondering what you all think.
 
#11 ·
Sure have to agree with the above. Methinks perhaps that the real question is the whole issue of should you consider using non lethal spray or equivalent. In SC and I would guess many states, you cannot frequent a bar or restaurant that serves alcohol while CC; that also goes for say evening meetings at a church. In both instances you now must get to your car in the dark and, if you follow the law, are not CC--seems that the spray or other non lethal distance defense (or the taser type defense) is in order.
 
#4 ·
I've heard quite a few folks say its a good alternative so its made me wonder when that might be. All I could think of was something like a large drunk grappling with me, clearly isn't attempting to do serious harm, but that im unable to distance myself from. Other than that I don't know where else it might come in handy, besides the fact that the ridiculous school I go to has banned CC so spray is what im relegated to... for now.

Then again, in that situation i'd probably catch it in the face as well.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I'm assuming you know about AOJ and the criteria for applying lethal force. Pepper spray is for those times and situations that are turning nasty but have not yet surpassed the AOJ criteria.

All aggressive panhandlers know what pepper spray is. "I'm sorry sir, I can't help you. Back off or I'll have to spray you. Back off!"

Dogs don't know what pepper spray is, but it sure works on them anyway.

If a bunch if kids are beating down on another kid, you don't want to physically move into the middle of the melee. Pepper spray breaks up such a beating.

Pepper spray also rapidly breaks up mobs. But the capacity of your pepper spray can is limited, depart the scene rapidly.

Assuming that pepper spray with UV-fluorescent dye is legal in your state, the pepper spray's dye helps identify the perpetrators you had to spray to police. Check your local laws, some states forbid dye in pepper spray.

Carry your pepper spray in your off-hand pocket or belt pouch. You don't want pepper spray in your gun hand if you do have to deploy your gun.

Sometimes pepper spray does not work at all. Have your backup plan ready to go.

The wind is not your friend; the wind can and will blow your pepper spray back into your face. Always be conscious of which direction the wind is blowing.

If you have to spray someone, don't stand still. Move upwind rapidly as and after you spray them.

If you are being pursued in your vehicle, holding your arm out the window and spraying pepper spray will get it into the eyes of the driver of the pursuing vehicle. Best at slower speeds, not so effective on the freeway.

When traversing a dark parking lot, have your pepper spray already in your hand and ready to go. If some one tries a "Hey, buddy, do you know the time?" approach or a blitz attack, you are ready to go. Otherwise you may not have time to fish around in your pocket or purse to find your pepper spray when you really need it.

If a guy is beating the s**t out of his girlfriend in the parking lot (or wherever), hose them both down to stop his attack. Call police. Let the police handle them. Don't get in thei middle of their fight; they may both turn on you if you do.
 
#7 ·
I carry OC. As stated above its great on dogs. According to the Berkeley Study it is effective on 90% of people. I think you must have a non lethal option these days.

What are you going to do if someone starts getting aggressive pushes you etc. , a homeless person or such? No justification at all to use lethal force but OC? It seems would be appropriate to facilitate your escape


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
#8 ·
Personally not a fan of sprays. If you ever use spray, you'll see why.....it goes everywhere, including on you. If you are bent on less lethal, I would recommend a civilian model (or LE, if legal for you) Taser. If you want OC, get a gel (i.e. Kimber Pepper Blaster). Keep in mind that OC or CS can have limited effectiveness on drunks and those impaired by drugs.....some it serves no purpose other than to piss them off.

Quite honestly, unless you are a LEO and are put in the position of dealing with rowdies, I'm not sure why anyone would want this option if you can legally CC. If you are truly placed in a situation of "fear for your life", deadly force is justifiable in most all jurisdictions. That said, there are varying statutory rules on the use of less lethal modalities as well. Lastly, and most importantly, the process of escalating level of force in a real world situation is at best tricky and at worst dangerous (for you). LEO's practice and train on this frequently.

Just my 2 cents.:wave:
 
#9 ·
Interesting thoughts. My current situation doesn't allow me to CC (college), so it seems its my next best alternative to lethal, which would be the knife I carry.
 
#10 ·
Interesting thoughts. My current situation doesn't allow me to CC (college), so it seems its my next best alternative to lethal, which would be the knife I carry.
Trust me, a knife is definitely considered a lethal weapon. Use it in a situation where lethal force is not warranted a DA will have no hesitation in charging you with assault with a deadly weapon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcclarke and mg27
#12 ·
I think pepper is a great non leathal tool, its good for screwing up the mucus membranes and blinding the person temporarly so if they do have a gun they will have to shoot blind mean while soon as I see that gun, Im fireing on them. But it all depends on what kind of threat.. Pepper is good for nuisance where you wouuld like to shoot the person but cant lol . But seriously, as for a violent person who is armed and out to rob, kill whatever, and you feel your life is in imminint danger, use the firearm..
 
#13 ·
The jail I work in uses spray, foggers , and pepperball guns. If they have used it anywhere in the building that day My nose runs, eyes water till I cant see, And my throat swells so much that I would never use the stuff myself. A direct blast would probably send me to the hospital! DR
 
#14 ·
I used spray once many years ago. I've been meaning to pick some up, it got me out of a jam before.

My senior year of college I lived in an apartment a few blocks from campus. I was waking home after a night class and noticed a young man on the sidewalk on the other side of the street walking towards campus. Just after we passed each other I glanced over my shoulder and saw him crossing the street to the same side I was on. I picked up my pace, waited a couple seconds and looked over my shoulder again. Now he's running in my direction. I was carrying my spray already in my right hand since I was walking alone in the dark. I stopped (figuring I couldn't outrun him anyway and braced myself) turned slightly so my left shoulder was towards him and my right arm further away. He grabbed me and I started spraying and screaming. He took off one way - I took off the other way to my apartment and called the police. A short while later the police were knocking on my door with the guy in tow (don't even get me started on how mad I was they brought him TO MY DOORSTEP!!) "is this him?" Turns out he was a young teenager and his parents begged me not to press charges because he was "just confused about woman and wasn't going to hurt you he just wanted a feel" (roll eyes - I totally pressed charges) He was released to his parents and while awaiting court he grabbed 2 girls on campus and copped a feel. Court came and went ( the other 2 girls declined to press charges) he got probation. The next semester I heard he broke into a woman's apartment in the night and climbed on top of her with a knife - she fought him off and he ran. That's the last I ever heard of him, I graduated and moved away - I still wonder what even happened to that derelict and wished I'd beat him up while I had the chance. Anyway, long story short even though I wasn't carrying back then, shooting him would have been pretty extreme for the situation, although it could have gone south in a hurry. Spray was a non lethal option that worked for me.

Edited to add: and yes the spray went all over me too, and was none too pleasant
 
#15 ·
I worked in corrections and have seen guys that were all worked up just eat the top of the line stuff! That said , I carry it because it is nasty and will work most of the time. Like others have said , I can see it being used for multiple trouble makers or the big guy that just wants to push you around and rub your face in the mud. I think it is especially wise for a young college guy who will be going out and is more likely to run into fools.
 
#16 ·
I think that it is a viable option to fill the void in the force continuum below that of lethal force. One, in many states, a (simple) assault, such as pushing, grabbing, hitting, blocking your path, etc, without some other does not justify a lethal force response. Two, if one has deployed a non lethal option and an aggressor then escalates their threat, you will have both taken a prudent non lethal step to evade and avoid as well as given yourself concrete confirmation of their harmful intentions.
 
#17 ·
I'm not trying to trivialize a serious question, but I was once a cross-country bicyclist. For dog chase defense, we kept a small squirt gun tucked in our right leg sock-top full of lemon juice concentrate. I've never seen a dog, no matter how big & bad, take 2-3 shots in the mouth & eyes without changing his mind. I've watched it work dozens of times. When my daughter went to college (no weapons in the dorm) she filled a long-stroke spray bottle with the stuff. Her male friends doubted the effectiveness and one brazenly volunteered as a guinea pig. She said it dropped him blind, crying like a baby. It's about as eco-freindly and non-aggressive as a Green Peace Rally. Just an idea. :image035:
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcclarke
#18 ·
Bottom line on OC, it is an option with far less serious legal consequences when used than
any other form of SD. You might still get charged with assault, but it won't be assault with a deadly
weapon.

Another advantage comes when compared with H2H; stand off and less chance of getting
harmed.

Every situation is different and every adversary is different, but if in a tight spot OC beats the heck
out of other choices.

Take for example the case we don't discuss here. Maybe the gun wouldn't have been used if
H2H skills were present. Better yet, maybe pepper would have broken up the encounter before it got to
where anyone felt their life was in danger.
 
#19 ·
OC is a good option to have, just don't be sucked into the belief that it will work on everyone. I've seen guys with enough OC on their face to appear like they ran a marathon, eyes still wide open, breathing normal. Be prepared to progress to other options
 
#21 ·
Yes, I started carrying spray shortly after I began thinking about carrying a hand gun for personal protection. My thought was spray first, disengage from the situation, get out of danger from there. I carry Sabre CS Tear Gas/Red Pepper PDS. as carried by the the NYPD, " Making grown men cry since 1978". If it is good enough for those brave men and women of the NYPD, I figure it is good enough for me.
 
#24 ·
At various times, I carry OC (OC and CS are, respectively, Pepper Spray and Tear Gas, not "Open Carry") as well as an ASP baton. The deterrence of a baton or OC is often enough to cause a would-be aggressor to change their mind and go elsewhere, without the need to sweat a charge for brandishing or pointing and presenting, which you may face if you draw but don't shoot someone. The gun is the absolute last resort. The pepper spray or baton can be carried in places that don't allow a gun, and are very handy for situations like pushy drunks at a club or bar for example, or really anywhere to be honest. In my line of work we go through pepper spray like water, breaking up fights at clubs in the parking lots. All of these tools are force multipliers, just like a tac light with a strobe function can be. All of these tools can give you an advantage in a confrontation, and any advantage is a good one.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top