When would you use non-lethal alternatives? i.e. OC spray?

When would you use non-lethal alternatives? i.e. OC spray?

This is a discussion on When would you use non-lethal alternatives? i.e. OC spray? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I started carrying OC spray recently and am wondering what you all think....

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Thread: When would you use non-lethal alternatives? i.e. OC spray?

  1. #1
    Member Array TheConcealer's Avatar
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    When would you use non-lethal alternatives? i.e. OC spray?

    I started carrying OC spray recently and am wondering what you all think.
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    Lots of Bears in your hood?

    Why advertize with OC anything? Just my opinion. If you can CC, why OC?
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    Lots of Bears in your hood?

    Why advertize with OC anything?

    This is just my opinion. If you can CC, why OC?
    Socialism Kills! Time proven, with a very large body count! We are a Constitutional Republic....... not a Democracy, get it correct!

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    Member Array TheConcealer's Avatar
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    I've heard quite a few folks say its a good alternative so its made me wonder when that might be. All I could think of was something like a large drunk grappling with me, clearly isn't attempting to do serious harm, but that im unable to distance myself from. Other than that I don't know where else it might come in handy, besides the fact that the ridiculous school I go to has banned CC so spray is what im relegated to... for now.

    Then again, in that situation i'd probably catch it in the face as well.
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    Senior Member Array marcclarke's Avatar
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    I'm assuming you know about AOJ and the criteria for applying lethal force. Pepper spray is for those times and situations that are turning nasty but have not yet surpassed the AOJ criteria.

    All aggressive panhandlers know what pepper spray is. "I'm sorry sir, I can't help you. Back off or I'll have to spray you. Back off!"

    Dogs don't know what pepper spray is, but it sure works on them anyway.

    If a bunch if kids are beating down on another kid, you don't want to physically move into the middle of the melee. Pepper spray breaks up such a beating.

    Pepper spray also rapidly breaks up mobs. But the capacity of your pepper spray can is limited, depart the scene rapidly.

    Assuming that pepper spray with UV-fluorescent dye is legal in your state, the pepper spray's dye helps identify the perpetrators you had to spray to police. Check your local laws, some states forbid dye in pepper spray.

    Carry your pepper spray in your off-hand pocket or belt pouch. You don't want pepper spray in your gun hand if you do have to deploy your gun.

    Sometimes pepper spray does not work at all. Have your backup plan ready to go.

    The wind is not your friend; the wind can and will blow your pepper spray back into your face. Always be conscious of which direction the wind is blowing.

    If you have to spray someone, don't stand still. Move upwind rapidly as and after you spray them.

    If you are being pursued in your vehicle, holding your arm out the window and spraying pepper spray will get it into the eyes of the driver of the pursuing vehicle. Best at slower speeds, not so effective on the freeway.

    When traversing a dark parking lot, have your pepper spray already in your hand and ready to go. If some one tries a "Hey, buddy, do you know the time?" approach or a blitz attack, you are ready to go. Otherwise you may not have time to fish around in your pocket or purse to find your pepper spray when you really need it.

    If a guy is beating the s**t out of his girlfriend in the parking lot (or wherever), hose them both down to stop his attack. Call police. Let the police handle them. Don't get in thei middle of their fight; they may both turn on you if you do.
    Last edited by marcclarke; November 20th, 2012 at 01:17 AM. Reason: Added bit about guy beating his girlfriend in parking lot.

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    Senior Member Array marcclarke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheConcealer View Post
    Then again, in that situation i'd probably catch it in the face as well.
    Thus the recommendation for a stream rather than a spray or fog O.C. dispenser. Wind really pushes a spray or a fog back into your face. A stream is far less susceptible to blow-back than a spray or a fog.

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    Senior Member Array Happypuppy's Avatar
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    When would you use non-lethal alternatives? i.e. OC spray?

    I carry OC. As stated above its great on dogs. According to the Berkeley Study it is effective on 90% of people. I think you must have a non lethal option these days.

    What are you going to do if someone starts getting aggressive pushes you etc. , a homeless person or such? No justification at all to use lethal force but OC? It seems would be appropriate to facilitate your escape


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    Senior Member Array DocT65's Avatar
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    Personally not a fan of sprays. If you ever use spray, you'll see why.....it goes everywhere, including on you. If you are bent on less lethal, I would recommend a civilian model (or LE, if legal for you) Taser. If you want OC, get a gel (i.e. Kimber Pepper Blaster). Keep in mind that OC or CS can have limited effectiveness on drunks and those impaired by drugs.....some it serves no purpose other than to piss them off.

    Quite honestly, unless you are a LEO and are put in the position of dealing with rowdies, I'm not sure why anyone would want this option if you can legally CC. If you are truly placed in a situation of "fear for your life", deadly force is justifiable in most all jurisdictions. That said, there are varying statutory rules on the use of less lethal modalities as well. Lastly, and most importantly, the process of escalating level of force in a real world situation is at best tricky and at worst dangerous (for you). LEO's practice and train on this frequently.

    Just my 2 cents.
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    Member Array TheConcealer's Avatar
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    Interesting thoughts. My current situation doesn't allow me to CC (college), so it seems its my next best alternative to lethal, which would be the knife I carry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheConcealer View Post
    Interesting thoughts. My current situation doesn't allow me to CC (college), so it seems its my next best alternative to lethal, which would be the knife I carry.
    Trust me, a knife is definitely considered a lethal weapon. Use it in a situation where lethal force is not warranted a DA will have no hesitation in charging you with assault with a deadly weapon.
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    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANGLICO View Post
    Lots of Bears in your hood?

    Why advertize with OC anything? Just my opinion. If you can CC, why OC?
    Sure have to agree with the above. Methinks perhaps that the real question is the whole issue of should you consider using non lethal spray or equivalent. In SC and I would guess many states, you cannot frequent a bar or restaurant that serves alcohol while CC; that also goes for say evening meetings at a church. In both instances you now must get to your car in the dark and, if you follow the law, are not CC--seems that the spray or other non lethal distance defense (or the taser type defense) is in order.

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    Member Array mg27's Avatar
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    I think pepper is a great non leathal tool, its good for screwing up the mucus membranes and blinding the person temporarly so if they do have a gun they will have to shoot blind mean while soon as I see that gun, Im fireing on them. But it all depends on what kind of threat.. Pepper is good for nuisance where you wouuld like to shoot the person but cant lol . But seriously, as for a violent person who is armed and out to rob, kill whatever, and you feel your life is in imminint danger, use the firearm..

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    Distinguished Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    The jail I work in uses spray, foggers , and pepperball guns. If they have used it anywhere in the building that day My nose runs, eyes water till I cant see, And my throat swells so much that I would never use the stuff myself. A direct blast would probably send me to the hospital! DR

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    Senior Member Array Lish's Avatar
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    When would you use non-lethal alternatives? i.e. OC spray?

    I used spray once many years ago. I've been meaning to pick some up, it got me out of a jam before.

    My senior year of college I lived in an apartment a few blocks from campus. I was waking home after a night class and noticed a young man on the sidewalk on the other side of the street walking towards campus. Just after we passed each other I glanced over my shoulder and saw him crossing the street to the same side I was on. I picked up my pace, waited a couple seconds and looked over my shoulder again. Now he's running in my direction. I was carrying my spray already in my right hand since I was walking alone in the dark. I stopped (figuring I couldn't outrun him anyway and braced myself) turned slightly so my left shoulder was towards him and my right arm further away. He grabbed me and I started spraying and screaming. He took off one way - I took off the other way to my apartment and called the police. A short while later the police were knocking on my door with the guy in tow (don't even get me started on how mad I was they brought him TO MY DOORSTEP!!) "is this him?" Turns out he was a young teenager and his parents begged me not to press charges because he was "just confused about woman and wasn't going to hurt you he just wanted a feel" (roll eyes - I totally pressed charges) He was released to his parents and while awaiting court he grabbed 2 girls on campus and copped a feel. Court came and went ( the other 2 girls declined to press charges) he got probation. The next semester I heard he broke into a woman's apartment in the night and climbed on top of her with a knife - she fought him off and he ran. That's the last I ever heard of him, I graduated and moved away - I still wonder what even happened to that derelict and wished I'd beat him up while I had the chance. Anyway, long story short even though I wasn't carrying back then, shooting him would have been pretty extreme for the situation, although it could have gone south in a hurry. Spray was a non lethal option that worked for me.

    Edited to add: and yes the spray went all over me too, and was none too pleasant

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    Member Array nhcruffler's Avatar
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    I worked in corrections and have seen guys that were all worked up just eat the top of the line stuff! That said , I carry it because it is nasty and will work most of the time. Like others have said , I can see it being used for multiple trouble makers or the big guy that just wants to push you around and rub your face in the mud. I think it is especially wise for a young college guy who will be going out and is more likely to run into fools.

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