Gun pointed at you...

This is a discussion on Gun pointed at you... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; BG: (Draws gun) Gimme yer' wallet. Me: (hands open in front of my body) Sure man, let me get it out. I slowly reach down ...

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Thread: Gun pointed at you...

  1. #16
    Member Array arcticelf's Avatar
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    BG: (Draws gun) Gimme yer' wallet.
    Me: (hands open in front of my body) Sure man, let me get it out.

    I slowly reach down with my right hand and go for my back pocket on the same side (which really is where my money clip lives). Instead I stop on the grip of my pistol just above said pocket and present that instead.

    Its all nice and slow till I have a good grip on the gun. Then I go full speed on the draw/shoot/move sideways.

    The only part I've tested is this: get a friend to watch you and ask 'is my hand on my gun, or my wallet?' Do this several times varying which one you grab. Its hard to tell, assuming 4 o'clock ish Carry. It'll be harder in the dark.

    Hopefully I never get to find out how well the rest of that plan will work.

    AE

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  3. #17
    Member Array Pickpocket's Avatar
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    If you haven't been trained in disarms, then don't attempt to use them; you're only going to get yourself or someone next to you shot.

    Disarms are a good tactic - however most people seem to think that you're going to pull off the disarm before the BG fires his weapon. What's actually going to happen is that he's very likely going to react to your movement and pull the trigger. Your success is dependant upon not being in front of the gun when it goes off.

    Discussions on whether or not to use a disarm are almost always focused on the wrong thing. Initiating the disarm isn't the difficult part - however many people fail to plan beyond that. What's difficult is what you do after you have your hand on the weapon, because unless you know what you're doing, you're just going to end up in a struggle for a loaded weapon. Not the best place to be.

    And...after all that - you might just get shot anyways. Ninja or no ninja.

  4. #18
    Member Array Eddie A.'s Avatar
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    If I'm in this situation, IMO I have a better chance of getting a shot off and surviving than giving the BG my iwallet and surviving. I would act like I'm complying and since I keep my gun and my wallet on my strong (right) side, I'd make a movemet in any direction (hopefully towards cover) and draw at the same time. The last thing the BG is thinking when you go to comply is that your going to draw on him.

    Just my .02
    "I'd rather have my gun and not need it, than need it and not have it"

  5. #19
    Member Array tnoisaw's Avatar
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    I’ve done a few martial arts but unless I can divert BG’s attention for me to disarm or draw I’ll comply with what ever he/she says. Disarming is not a easy thing to do even for the best of ‘em. A trigger pull is much faster than a self defense move.
    Don't be a fool and die for your country. Let the other sonofabitch die for his.

    George S. Patton

  6. #20
    CDH
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    It's been nice knowin' a bunch of you guys; too bad you're going to die soon. Here's a drink to your health while you're still alive.

    This isn't a matter of "putting yourself in that situation", it's about "allowing" yourself to be put in that situation.
    And the way you allow it is by walking around with your head up your a**.

    There are too many clues available to you that you can draw on to not let yourself get as far as having a barrel stuck up your nose.
    Read a book called "The Gift of Fear" by DeBecker and you will understand how to avoid getting past that point of no return where you have absolutely NO control over the situation. If you have a gun in your face, you no longer have ANY control over that situation and the predator has ALL the control over you that he wants.
    Unfortunately, the author of that book appears (to me) to be anti-gun, but he is brilliant at examining the psyche of both predators AND the intended victim (you) and will give you enough information to keep out of nasty situations.
    Where I differ from him is that even though I apply his concepts, I also carry a pistol in order to be able to arrive at that split second BEFORE a point of no return where a defensive weapon WILL make a huge difference.

    By the time you have a gun in your face, you've already screwed the pooch so give the guy your wallet and hope he let's you live. Ninja moves like you see in the movie Collateral where Tom Cruise "easily" shoots the 2 bad buys who have guns themselves is just a movie.
    If Tom screwed up the scene, someone just yells "cut". If YOU screw up YOUR scene, the whole thing (your life) ends there.

  7. #21
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    CDH

    We're assuming for the topic of this thread that the gun is already pointed at the person.

    This is not a situational avoidance thread on how to best accomplish not finding oneself in the situation in the first place.

    So your answer to the exact stated problem in this scenario is give the guy your wallet and then hope really hard that he does not put one in your head and he allows you to live.

    A.) Give Wallet

    B.) Hope...if religious...pray.

    Your answer has been duly noted.

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array BIG E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    Get a friend and a squirt gun. Arm the friend with the quirt gun, and see how often your "ninja move" lets you divert his arm before you get wet.

    Then, go change your wet shirt and reflect on the lesson learned.



    Matt
    I think this is a great idea, but lets substitute a paint ball gun so you have to "pay a little" everytime you get shot.

    It seems that too many movies have been watched. I would imagine that you are only a quarter as fast as you think you are.

    If it were me... I would make a jesture towards the mans shoes indicating that they are untied and then do a front flip over the mans head while striking him in the back of the head with my right foot.

    Hey... im 6'3 and 300lbs... I could pull that off right? Hell I couldn't jump over a hotdog!


    All in good fun!
    Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!

    -- Theodore Roosevelt --

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array afeazell21's Avatar
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    Thats a good one. In that situation you have a 50/50 choice on what you want to do. I can't give a complete answer because I would have to be in that situation to tell you what I would do. It is hard to say not knowing all of the circumstances.
    "Dont be afraid to go after what you want to do, and what you want to be. But don't be afraid to be willing to pay the price." - Lane Frost

  10. #24
    Member Array kastiron's Avatar
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    Totally honest response to being in the scenario where someone already has a gun pointed at my head..


    First I try not to wet my trousers. (Probably would though)

    Second I will go from there as the situation dictates, most likely outcome to hand over the wallet and hope for the best. while hoping for one of the other people around me to be an armed sheepdog or at least yell for help on my behalf.

    I have practiced and consider myself to be at least as proficient at the next guy. Ninja or quickdraw McGraw, I am not.

  11. #25
    CDH
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    Quote Originally Posted by kastiron View Post
    Totally honest response to being in the scenario where someone already has a gun pointed at my head..

    First I try not to wet my trousers. (Probably would though)
    You may be onto something there.

    Doing something like dropping your wallet would probably be seen as an intentional and obvious distraction by the BG and make him more willing to shoot you just because you showed that you thought he was stupid.

    But whizzing in your pants? He would not only NOT expect that, but it would probably gross him out and distract him just enough for you to do a number on him.

    Remember, when it comes to streetfights, gunfights, or just plain survival, there ain't no rules.

    I mean, if a person is stupid enough to think that they can bust a move on someone that already has a gun in their face, then peeing in your pants is no dumber than any other kind of ninja move.
    I guess after you pee your pants, you could do a little dance like this banana here and really freak the guy out.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    The only difference between looking down the wrong end of a double barrel shotgun and a 45acp 1911 is that with the double barrel is you get a choice of which tunnel you want to crawl into.

  13. #27
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    Please remember that any firearm is very directionally specific as to it's lethality at close range.
    Pnt Blank - Moving the muzzle of the firearm a mere four inches off COM even without any counter directional body movement on your part is a survivable non lethal hit. If the muzzle is 1ft. away then diverting the muzzle 2" either way off COM is a miss.

    Note: My wife wants to play computer pinball right now.

    To be continued.

  14. #28
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    Actuallly there is a book reveiw at the back of this months issue of "Combat Handguns" that mentioned this. I'm at work and can't give propper credit, but I think the title of the book is something like "Guns and Wariors" and the quote is

    "We have demonstrated in repeated studies that,even at six feet and less, a quick side step will cause the bad guy to miss abot 75 percent of the time."

    "If you don't move immediately, when threatened, you will find if difficult to focus on your front sight rather then on the threat itself"

    I think it pays to think of what you would do in the situation and train accordingly. Personally, no, you can not have my wallet.

    EDIT- Combat Handguns, Dec 2006
    "In Review: Guns and Warriors"
    Artical by Ed Lovette
    Book by John Farnam
    Last edited by crankinNM; October 11th, 2006 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Credit-quote

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcticelf View Post
    BG: (Draws gun) Gimme yer' wallet.
    Me: (hands open in front of my body) Sure man, let me get it out.

    I slowly reach down with my right hand and go for my back pocket on the same side (which really is where my money clip lives). Instead I stop on the grip of my pistol just above said pocket and present that instead.

    Its all nice and slow till I have a good grip on the gun. Then I go full speed on the draw/shoot/move sideways.

    The only part I've tested is this: get a friend to watch you and ask 'is my hand on my gun, or my wallet?' Do this several times varying which one you grab. Its hard to tell, assuming 4 o'clock ish Carry. It'll be harder in the dark.

    Hopefully I never get to find out how well the rest of that plan will work.

    AE
    What AE said. Plus, you have to have made this decision way before you get that gun in your face.

    Personally, I made the decision long ago that if you pull a gun on me that at least ONE of us is going to die. I will not tolerate having a gun pointed at me or mine.

  16. #30
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    Why Practice - Why Train - Why Carry if you intend to do NOTHING but, hand your wallet over in a robbery attempt and hope for a decent outcome?

    Of course The Bad Guy is going to have a weapon pointed at me.
    Would I honestly hand him my wallet if he had a Snickers bar or a carrot pointed at me?

    The guy that intends to rob me had damn well better have a weapon on him & I'm best guessing (in advance) that if he's attempting to rob me - his weapon is not going to be pointed up at the moon. It's going to be pointed at me.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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