Used in Self Defense Numbers???

Used in Self Defense Numbers???

This is a discussion on Used in Self Defense Numbers??? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; After1 hr 30 mins of research, I stopped reading. I guess one can spin the numbers any which way; depending what camp you're in. Is ...

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Thread: Used in Self Defense Numbers???

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Oct 2012

    Used in Self Defense Numbers???

    After1 hr 30 mins of research, I stopped reading.
    I guess one can spin the numbers any which way; depending what camp you're in.
    Is it any wonder no one can even come close to agreement as to "do we need any sort of gun control or not"?

    How often do Americans use guns for defensive purposes - Larry Elder - [page]

    Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence : Studies

    Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review

    using the data from 1992 and 1994 waves of the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), found roughly 116,000 defensive gun uses per year, and Kleck and Gertz (1995), using data from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (NSDS), found around 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

  2. #2
    Ex Member Array Piratesailor's Avatar
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    My father use to say...statistics lie and liars statistic....spin.
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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Re: Used in Self Defense Numbers???

    Last I knew fer sure, a national, recognized, scientific organization, National Institute of Science (or National Science Foundation, maybe some other group), one that might be considered "anti," admitted that there were no conclusive studies on either side of the issue.

    I believe them to at least have been honest.
    blitzburgh likes this.
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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  5. #4
    Senior Member Array Darrow75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piratesailor View Post
    My father use to say...statistics lie and liars statistic....spin.
    My father taught me something similar.

    "Figures never lie, but liars can figure"

  6. #5
    Member Array Billb1960's Avatar
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    Nov 2012
    There's lies, damned lies and statistics.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Dec 2009
    Yes, but what are the odds of them being correct?
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  8. #7
    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    It's a ridiculously complex issue. It combines the (mostly) science of statistics with the (partially) art of survey construction. But here's the thing. The lowest estimate, around 100,000, is such an outlier that it's almost impossible to believe it. It's not as if half the studies say 100,000 and half say 2.5 million. It's one survey (that wasn't even constructed properly to deal with the specific issue of defensive gun uses) VS a bunch of studies that more or less start at around 800,000 and go up from there.

    So do I think that Lott and/or Kleck have it completely right? I'm skeptical. But I'm much much more skeptical of the 100,000 number.

    But here's the best part. The low end number, 100,000, is the one that the antis will grant. Even if they are right, 100,000 is more than enough to justify firearm ownership.. That number is more than triple the number of total gun deaths, and if the actual number is 200,000, still far far below the average of all of the research, it matches the total number of injuries.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Figures like, and liars figure. Yup.

    It can be hard to get at "good" numbers. It gets even worse when one realizes the numbers we do see are only those reported and cataloged. The ones that don't get reported or that get mislabeled/misrepresented aren't in there, for comparison. And in some cases, as with some notable international examples, some reporting agencies (and/or governments) simply like about the figures for an agenda ... whether that's to garner continued funding, or dissuade certain legislation, to pander for votes, or whatever.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).

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