What do I do?
This is a discussion on What do I do? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Note: I didn't know where this would be most appropriate, so if it needs to be moved, that's cool.
I am a freshmen in college. ...
October 11th, 2006 11:07 AM
What do I do?
Note: I didn't know where this would be most appropriate, so if it needs to be moved, that's cool.
I am a freshmen in college. As I was going to class I rode by my friend, but I didn't think it was because he was carrying a different backpack. As I rode past him on my bike he yelled out "(my nickname here)" and I turn around and it is indeed my friend. I proceed to tell him "I thought it was you but you have a different backpack, did you get a new one?" and he goes on to tell me that he was robbed at gunpoint while visiting another campus yesterday to see his girlfriend. My question is, what can I suggest to him, and what can I also do to be prepared for this kind of situation? He is so close to me and I don't want anything like this to happen to either of us again, yet we are both too young to carry, not to mention 99% of the time we are on school property, where carry is prohibited. I am thinking some defense courses and carrying a folder, but I'd like to hear what others have to say, since there is the old rule "never bring a knife to a gunfight."
Last edited by Screamin'Eagle; October 11th, 2006 at 11:14 AM.
October 11th, 2006 11:07 AM
October 11th, 2006 11:52 AM
I think you nailed it right on the head. If you are held at a gun point cooperate.
Originally Posted by Screamin'Eagle
Prevention though does alot: be aware of your surroundings, look for people when you're walking and if need be adjust where you're going to avoid them if need be.
October 11th, 2006 12:04 PM
Your best defence and his - and ours too whether we carry or not is - situational awareness - dedication to being alert and trying to pre-empt being caught in bad or dangerous situations.
It is not a guarantee of safety but does go a long way toward self protection and avoidance of trouble.
Read thru here - one or two threads on improvized weapons etc - might be some useful ideas.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
October 11th, 2006 12:28 PM
I talked to him for a little while after class and he said that he could tell something was up but he didn't know what was actually happening until one of the robbers had him spun in the opposite direction and had the gun to his back. As you both said, situational awareness could have possibly avoided the incident.
Thanks for the feedback.
October 12th, 2006 03:56 AM
Tell your friend to start carrying a back-up wallet (decoy), with 2-3 dollars, a fake ID and fake credit cards (you know, the ones they send you in the mail with no name on it, trying to get you to apply for their cards).
Should he get robbed at gunpoint again, he should give up the "fake-wallet", and let the robber go on his way, so he can call security and report him, noting his dress attire, shoes, hat etc.
Remember, if robbed at gunpoint, don't be stupid, give up the goods. (Just don't give him the real stuff!) Your mind is the best tool you can carry.
When you're both old enough, get lots of training, get a CCW permit and the next time you get robbed, pop a cap in his ass!
Whoops! Lost it there for a second. lol
Always remember: 3 can keep a secret, if 2 are dead!
October 12th, 2006 12:26 PM
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"It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008
October 12th, 2006 04:07 PM
I'm in the same situation is the OP. I'm a college student and I live in a state that doesn't allow CCW. I solved that by carrying a flashlight and a giant can of OC spray.
I keep an eye on my surroundings when I'm out walking around and I keep the flashlight out in my hand when walking through dark places at night. I figure that if a BG is trying to decide whether or not to jump me, the light in the eyse might make him question whether or not I'm a sheep. Of course if that doesn't work I hose him with the OC and run for the hills.
I carry a nice sharp folder as well, but I'm really not too sure how well I'd fare in a knife fight.
October 12th, 2006 06:22 PM
The fact of the matter is your hands are tied and there is not much that you can do "weapon" wise to protect you.
You are in a "gun free zone" this equals easy pickings for criminals, this is the exact reason why your friend was robbed. Next you are under the age of 21 so carrying legally is not an option for you yet.
There are things you can do though.
I think that taking defense classes is a great idea and I highly recommend them. Instead of taking the traditional martial art's I would see if in your area they have classes that incorporate both martial art's and street fighting/defending together so you can cut to the chase and quickly start learning some real world street defense/offense right away that you can use. In my area these classes are called "DTT" (Defensive Tactics Technologies) you should have similar classes to choose from in your area but will likely go by a different name.
I am thinking some defense courses and carrying a folder
, but I'd like to hear what others have to say, since there is the old rule "never bring a knife to a gunfight."
My Sensei teaches both the Tenshin Aikido and the DTT classes I take. I can tell you that as much as I enjoy taking the traditional martial art, I have learned a great deal more in the DTT classes that I can actually use on the street than I ever have taking Tenshin Aikido While learning it much quicker. I recommend taking both or a martial art of your interest but if you have to choose one as I am sure you will have to being a college student, take the Defense Courses. Here is a link to DTT you can check out and get the idea of what I am talking about. http://www.defensivetechnologies.com/
Next, there are many different tool's you can carry that will be legal and can help you in many situations especially if you train. I agree that you should not bring a knife to a gun fight but if you can't carry a piece a knife is better than nothing at all. One of them I recommend is a Stinger to carry with you at all times. It is probably the least expensive, effective, discrete tool that one could have on them IMO. You can find the Stingers here http://www.jamesakeating.com/catalg3.html
If you have no way of getting one of these tool's PM me your information and I will make sure you at least have a Stinger on you to aid in defending yourself. A Stinger or a knife is not the every day answer when in a situation that you have a gun held on you but it is better than nothing at all. The thing is, criminals are lazy and sloppy and will allow you opportunities to strike if you know what to look for and what you are doing and waiting on. If you have trained your odd's of survival and ending a threat go way up even without a gun. Before concealed carry in my state I trained and still train for HTH offensive/defensive and with using alternative "tool's" to get the job done if I had to.
I also agree with a powerful, bright tactical light to carry but get a good one a Surefire, Streamlight, Digilight. Ask your parents for one for Christmas or something and sending it to you early. I like the 120 to 225 lumen lights the best for this. some are pricy but good tactical lights have been know to end a threat just by blinding the BG with it. This will allow you to get away while disorienting the BG. OC spray is also a good choice that ElMonoDelMar touched on.
Last edited by Ti Carry; October 12th, 2006 at 06:39 PM.
Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!
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October 12th, 2006 07:18 PM
Awareness and avoidance are the keys to survival, whether you are armed or not. Best of luck to you!
October 13th, 2006 04:43 PM
I got an e-mail today from the campus safety director. Looks like I might need to add some kevlar along with my flashlight and OC daily carry. And I thought I lived on a "safe" campus...
Several people have been robbed, some at gunpoint, in the campus district, which is bounded by University Avenue, Windsor Road, the railroad tracks along Neil Street and Race Street. These crimes of have taken place between 8:00 p.m. - 4:00 a.m., and the suspects have used a number of tactics to approach their victims. These tactics have included catching the victim by surprise and approaching individuals and asking for cigarettes. University of Illinois Police are working closely with city police departments to catch the criminals.
October 14th, 2006 07:07 AM
I don't know all of the specifics about this situation, but the overall impression I get is that the robbery occured at clinch range. At these distances (0-3 feet) disarming techniques, barehanded strikes and/or knifework may be a better solution than drawing a firearm.
Twist the gun out of his hand (possibly breaking fingers or a wrist in the process) and briskly apply this newly acquired blunt instrument to his face as needed. Then, if a knife is quickly available, follow up with slashes/stabs to the face, eyes and throat or run him over and pump it repeatedly into his chest until he goes down or runs away.
OWB knife sheaths are almost always faster, yet are slightly harder to conceal than IWB sheaths. They work well with untucked clothing. Preferably, it should be a fixed blade since folding knifes take that much longer to deploy. Blades like the Disciple or Clinchpick from Shivworks (http://shivworks.com/products.asp) work well for these kinds of situations. The way they are meant to be worn allows you to have them in hand in under a second with a locked wrist even during clinch range scenarios. The sheaths are multi-directional. Any knife with these features would be a good pick.
Having a knife is better than not having one. Having a knife and knowing how to use it is even better. Southnarc's reverse edge methods DVDs are great. Along with knife techniques, they also show you disarms and empty hand material. I also recommend Gabe Suarez' Close Range Gunfighting and Die Less Often DVDs. You can get them at http://onesourcetactical.com or from Paladin Press.
Watch these videos with your friend and train with him. The only caveat is that this stuff isn't exactly cheap, so you might have to save up for it. But in the meantime, ANY knife is better than no knife. And of course, when you're able to buy a handgun and get a CCW license, do it. The 21 yr/old age restriction is a load of carp...
October 14th, 2006 11:01 PM
The situation was very similar to the one "El" presented, only at the University of Minnesota Twin Cities. Thanks to everyone for all of the tips. I would like to carry a fixed blade, but I feel it would be too large. Right now I have my leatherman on constantly until I can get my folder from home.
October 19th, 2006 03:17 PM
At least you're honest. Better than lying to yourself about how you'd cut him good if someone tried robbing you.
Originally Posted by ElMonoDelMar
I myself carry a gun, a knife (or two), a small flashlight (MiniMagLED), but as of right now no OC spray. (Gonna get some.) It sounds to me like you are doing all that you can to remain safe. When you are old enough, get the hell outta IL and get yourself a CCW license if you really want to be able to defend yourself in the gravest extreme.
October 19th, 2006 04:15 PM
Careful. He's in Illinois. There is such a minefield of what is illegal to do there -- defensively! -- that I would hardly suspect that carrying a fixed blade knife is something legally allowed. I could be wrong (not an expert in IL law) but if there's anywhere I would suspect that carrying a fixed-bladed knife would cause you legal trouble if detected, it would be that state.
Originally Posted by mattdamon
October 19th, 2006 05:21 PM
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.
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