Critique My Actions Last Night - Page 2

Critique My Actions Last Night

This is a discussion on Critique My Actions Last Night within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; locked my doors if i'm in my vehicle (or any vehicle), the doors are locked...

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Thread: Critique My Actions Last Night

  1. #16
    Member Array nwhittin's Avatar
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    locked my doors
    if i'm in my vehicle (or any vehicle), the doors are locked


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    I keep all but my driver's side locked. The reason is that I was once in a wreck with all the doors locked, and was trapped in the vehicle until I managed to punch out a window because it seemed it sprung the door locks (two doors, both were dented in against the actuator rod from the switch to the lock disengagement). I just can't stand to be trapped; I'm claustrophobic.

    That's the worst I was hurt in that wreck incidently; I iced my hand and it was OK in a day so no biggie.

    Josh <><

  3. #18
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    I don't mind any good citizens protecting themselves, and taking back what is ours from the criminals.

    But my first reaction to your story, Josh, was that you put yourself deliberately -- and unnecessarily -- into the position of having to act as a law enforcement officer. Do you have adequate training to be doing that, besides a gun, a flashlight, and a knowledge of how to use them?

    I don't know the layout of the area where you were, but it seemed to me, from your story, that while it's admirable that you were keeping an eye out for crime (in a place where LEOs are spread mighty thin and can't really be a preventive force) you were "sticking your nose in" -- and it could've gotten blown off!

    What if the nefarious owner of the p.o.s. Ford was indeed a lurking, armed burglar, maybe with accomplice(s), and took offense to your skulking around his getaway vehicle?

    I'm kind of surprised that the dispatcher asked you (known to them or not) to go investigate. Imagine if you had drawn and fired on someone and then it was found to be fully unjustified. The PD would have belonged to your victim's family. But I know that I don't have a full understanding of the dynamic in that kind of rural area; I'm not from there, after all.

    I applaud your concern, but at the same time I am wary that some of it may be born of a desire to "play cop." I mean no offense, but I hope you will reconsider putting yourself in harm's way in the future like you did in this incident.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Depends on the personal relationship you personally have with your LEs . Most folks don't know the officers anymore. If you have a respectable, personal, relationship with several of them, no fault, no foul. At least one of them signed off on your CCW, and if you know them beyond that, they would be able to validate your character to whatever extent was necessary.

    I take a non-involvement stance with pretty much anything, anymore, but neither would I see anything unreasonable in what you did, in the town I grew up in, about 20 years ago. Different operating parameters than most suburbanites......

  5. #20
    Member Array arcticelf's Avatar
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    Josh,
    I'm with you on stoping to help out when I see a car broken down on the road. I grew up in Alaska (on the coast) and then spent some time in Maine, where LEOs are damn scarce and spread thin, respectivly.

    I'd say you did good in the incident you describe. I'm not too worried about a finger sliping into the trigger guard under those circumstances, but if it were me: I'd practice more on the draw while keeping the finger clear. Honestly I'd be more worried about the bullet hole down range (your garage) of the rabit then blasting the rabit.

    I've spent more then one night, sence moving to Worcester, with a con 3 AR15 next to the bed. Because prior to going to sleep the goings on outside were a bit too rowdy for my taists. So I hear you there too.

    Good luck and Stay safe.
    AE

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array Super Trucker's Avatar
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    Just a quick comment on the make my day law, it sounds from your original post if the rabbit had been a person you would have blasted them, just remember that that law still provides you the ability to spend your life savings in court defending yourself. relax and don't take stuff so seriously. You are a mechanic not a cop.

  7. #22
    Member Array steve_db's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    Just a quick comment on the make my day law, it sounds from your original post if the rabbit had been a person you would have blasted them, just remember that that law still provides you the ability to spend your life savings in court defending yourself. relax and don't take stuff so seriously. You are a mechanic not a cop.
    well said S.T.

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Good mix of useful comments on this thread. I'm of the opinion expressed by Rocky and he said it well. In the final analysis, you emerged unharmed and that's all that counts. I have a problem with sworn officers asking you to act in their stead. If you get hurt are you able to immediately radio for EMTs and armed backup? If you're not a sworn LEO just be a good witness.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    But my first reaction to your story, Josh, was that you put yourself deliberately -- and unnecessarily -- into the position of having to act as a law enforcement officer. Do you have adequate training to be doing that, besides a gun, a flashlight, and a knowledge of how to use them?
    Hello,

    Actually, yes I do. I've learned not to show my hand too early in the game as it were, but I am a few credit hours away from a law enforcement degree. I decided, after seeing some things, that I did not want to pursue that as a career. However, I do have the training both from the local police (police procedure, some equipment, handguns, OC) and college (mostly procedure, a lot of how to stay safe and approach a suspicious vehicle, etc.)

    "Playing cop" is about the last thing I want to do as I closed the door to that career years back. I really just want to be left alone, and as this truck was a bit close to my territory, I felt threatened by its presence. Maybe I'm just terratorial.

    Thank you for the comments.

    Josh <><

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    Just a quick comment on the make my day law, it sounds from your original post if the rabbit had been a person you would have blasted them, just remember that that law still provides you the ability to spend your life savings in court defending yourself. relax and don't take stuff so seriously. You are a mechanic not a cop.
    Hello,

    No, I still ID'd my target.

    If I had seen a gun, yes, I would have fired after retreating into the garage.

    If I had seen a tire iron or something of the sort, the distance was such that I could have barked a few orders before having to fire. They drop the weapon or run and I'm happy.

    Josh <><

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    Good mix of useful comments on this thread. I'm of the opinion expressed by Rocky and he said it well. In the final analysis, you emerged unharmed and that's all that counts. I have a problem with sworn officers asking you to act in their stead. If you get hurt are you able to immediately radio for EMTs and armed backup? If you're not a sworn LEO just be a good witness.
    While around the truck I was in continuous cell contact with the dispatcher, who knew exactly where I was before I left my truck.

    Sometimes being a good witness is not enough; I was jumpy around my house because my dad is here, still recovering from cancer (though doing well), and my parents are of the type who do not keep weapons. My guns are the only ones in the house. I actually moved back here to help out as Dad recovers.

    Josh <><

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    Just a clarification of the "finger inside the triggerguard" thing: It was intentional.

    I began thinking about engagement tactics and thought that this may be, for my purposes, the best way, such that:

    1) Recognize threat

    2) Make decision to draw with finger landmarked on the frame.

    3) Threat increases so that I know I will most likely have to fire. Finger goes into triggerguard and presses forward, like switching off the safety on a Garand or similiar. The idea is that, should I get ahold of a firearm with this type of safety in a struggle, I will go "safe off" without thinking. Same reason I ride the safety on a pre-decock Taurus, or have a high thumb hold on a Glock.

    4) Finger eases back against the trigger, firing the pistol.

    Knowing that the extensor muscles are not as strong as the flexors, I'm cautious with this approach and will abandon it if it doesn't show promise. However, it seemed to have worked in that case, when I was absolutely startled out of my mind.

    Will I keep the idea? I don't know.

    Josh <><

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Lightbulb All's well that end's well....

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua M. Smith View Post
    Hello,

    Actually, yes I do. I've learned not to show my hand too early in the game as it were, but I am a few credit hours away from a law enforcement degree. I decided, after seeing some things, that I did not want to pursue that as a career. However, I do have the training both from the local police (police procedure, some equipment, handguns, OC) and college (mostly procedure, a lot of how to stay safe and approach a suspicious vehicle, etc.)Josh <><
    I have a BA degree in Criminal Justice and experience as a LEO, as well. I was a State Parole & Probation Officer during the mid 1980s. My experience there taught me that in my neck of the woods (can't specifically link this to you) BGs drawn to this sort of activity seem to have a wolfpack mentality and therefore will be moving in a group (large or small). Having also been an Infantry Captain on active duty taught me that operating as a "solo" patrol in the face of multiple threats requires that in that case discretion is the better part of valor.

    Forgive me, I teach Psychology and have for many years. I also hold a minor in the subject. It seems to me that in throwing open this thread for a critique of your actions and the way in which you have responded to each of our observations....it just seems to me that you expected to have more of us affirm your actions than oppose them and that hasn't seemed to be the case. You're looking a little bit harried and defensive.

    Bear in mind that we're ALL your friends. We only want the best for you and the fact that you're alive and well in the aftermath of this event is testimony to the fact that you did the right thing...this time. Of course it may well be also that you had something of a "trump card" riding your wing (<><) and so long as HE holds you in his grip, no harm shall befall you. Am I right on that?

    God Bless, Brother.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    Forgive me, I teach Psychology and have for many years. I also hold a minor in the subject. It seems to me that in throwing open this thread for a critique of your actions and the way in which you have responded to each of our observations....it just seems to me that you expected to have more of us affirm your actions than oppose them and that hasn't seemed to be the case. You're looking a little bit harried and defensive.
    Not intentionally. I'm trying to get involved in the conversation. Debate and active discussion is how I learn. A lot of people, on a couple different boards have taken it as defensive. It's not; it's kinda' like someone thinking out loud. I remember what is said better when I respond to it.

    Psychoanalysis is best done face-to-face I think. Just my opinion, but the body language and such have as much to do with communication as what is said verbally. Not an attack but an opinion.

    As for the "<><," I picked the idea up from someone else on another board and thought it was a good thing. I put it there because I believe. However, I'm also of the belief that God intervenes when a true accident occurs. For example, I was rear ended by a semi in a Buick Skyhawk years back. That's the one I punched the window out of. My friend saw the whole thing and said it looked like the car exploded. The only part of the car that wasn't totally mangled was the driver's seat, and except for one very small glass cut (which I couldn't find after a bit of blood stopped) and my fist injured by punching glass, I was unscathed. I was also rolled on the highway in my old Blazer. Again, unscathed.

    Those were accidents.

    I don't think God would do much if I went and got myself shot doing something dumb.

    And honestly, I didn't want to bring out the police stuff, but I was asked. I don't lie and am very bad at evading questions.

    But please, believe me when I say it's just an interactive experience and I'm learning more than if I had just read through the answers. I am not afraid to use myself as an example for this as broken down cars are not rare, and a thorough examination of the ordeal may save someone else grief in the future.

    I fully realize that I'm putting my screwups, as well as what I did right, in front of thousands of anonymous people.

    Josh <><

  15. #30
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    This board is a great way to anonymously "think out" your decisions and tactics and perhaps modify them. No bashing, just simple evaluation and suggestion. we all can learn and re evaluate our reactions/ tactics and perhaps come away better informed.
    Also , as we move on, tactics and training evolve, usually for the better. I know LEO training is different than when I went thru too.
    Bottom line, stay safe and continue posting so we all can learn .
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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