The 4th Estate Gets it Wrong..Again

This is a discussion on The 4th Estate Gets it Wrong..Again within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; All in all though the article was much more pro-gun than most articles. They call out the local tv station for cutting away to the ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    All in all though the article was much more pro-gun than most articles.

    They call out the local tv station for cutting away to the weather forecast when the sheriff started talking about how a legally licensed permit holder could have stopped the shooter:

    It is particularly curious that during the Wednesday morning press conference, Northwest Cable News picked a point when Phillips was responding to questions about possible armed citizens acting in self-defense inside the mall to break away for a weather report.
    and also check out these pro concealed carry comments from the article:

    What good are background checks when guns are stolen?
    And

    Clackamas Town Center and some 200 other shopping malls around the country, has a no-firearms policy. This policy is allegedly designed to provide customers with a safe and comfortable place to shop. How did that work out Tuesday evening?
    As far as getting it right, they did better than most newspapers do.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I think the Sheriff was doing a good job of dispelling the News Reports of all the BS sensationalism such as 'Bullet Proof Vest" was really only a LBV Load Bearing Vest,and the AR15 was not a machine gun or "Assault Rifle" like the Military uses
    phreddy, aus71383 and ccw9mm like this.
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedimitrius View Post
    Maybe if you were shooting prairie dogs wearing 1/4" thick plate armor. I was taught in the military that it was the best round for "hardened" combat (shooting through barriers).
    What branch of military? and at what school would you learn such a thing? That is absolute nonsense.

    Austin
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by aus71383 View Post
    What branch of military? and at what school would you learn such a thing? That is absolute nonsense.

    Austin
    I was thinking the same thing. I can only guess that possibly they (whoever said this) was talking about the M885 round with the SS109 bullet, the one with the "steel penetrator" that is designed to penetrate a steel helmet at 300m. We must remember that there are many types of 5.56 bullets, and that they can accomplish quite different tasks.

    That said, that it is "the best round for "hardened" combat" is, indeed, nonsense.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  6. #20
    Member Array BadgerMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    I was thinking the same thing. I can only guess that possibly they (whoever said this) was talking about the M885 round with the SS109 bullet, the one with the "steel penetrator" that is designed to penetrate a steel helmet at 300m. We must remember that there are many types of 5.56 bullets, and that they can accomplish quite different tasks.

    That said, that it is "the best round for "hardened" combat" is, indeed, nonsense.
    Either that or perhaps M995, I agree though. There is always something better though M995 might be your best bet for that cartridge.

  7. #21
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    When I went Deer Hunting years ago I used a 30.06 and no one else in my group used a .223, and all were bolt action. Wonder why???? We were only hunting deer.
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    T
    ..and a quote from the article

    Really? Prairie dogs? Hmm?

    A .223 projectile with a velocity of approx 3,200 fps capable of killing a human at 300+ yards.

    This just boggles the imagination.
    Yes, really!
    Evidently you "ain't from around here," else you would recognize the .223 Remington as perhaps the most popular varmint cartridge on the map. It has been in used for decades. I have friends who spend the whole winter reloading .223 ammunition for an annual trip to Montana or Wyoming during which they shoot dogs by the hundres, if not thousands.

    Now, my .308 Winchester or .30-06 is...to put it in terms you think make some point...can kill a human at 600-plus hards. So what? They knock an elk or deer down at several hundred yards, too, and that of course is what they're for.

    I know guys who hunt coyotes with AR-15s firing .223 Remington ammunition.

    That's what they're for, too.

    As someone earlier demonstrated by publishing a power scale of various small-bore cartridges, the .223 Remington is hardly the warp king on the block.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedimitrius View Post
    Maybe if you were shooting prairie dogs wearing 1/4" thick plate armor. I was taught in the military that it was the best round for "hardened" combat (shooting through barriers).
    Whoever taught you that is about half full of crap, unless you're shooting AP ammo, but even then, the .223 has some problems. Small caliber bullets even at high velocities can fragment when they hit hard surfaces, not always but it's a possibility. Also, as some reports indicate from the field, the .223 round has displayed some penetration problems in certain regions where people wear layers of clothing, and that's one reason that apparently contributed to re-issue of M-14s to some riflemen, or so I am told.

    Want to shoot through barriers? Go with a .50 BMG or a .338 Lapua both in use today by long-range marksmen.

    As I noted in another post, I shoot a .308 Winchester and a .30-06, both of them a hell of a lot more lethal at long range than a .223 Remington, which — as others here have chimed in — is good for shooting prairie dogs and coyotes..and other varmints.

  10. #24
    Member Array Cook74's Avatar
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    We don't have prairie dogs here in the PNW... so sad...
    Doug;}
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  11. #25
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    I'd put my Weatherby .300 magnum up against any of those puny so called vermit shooting assault rifles....LOL
    US Army 1953-1977

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  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightsEroding View Post
    The original article
    Oregon mall shooter used stolen rifle; Wash. bill would change self-defense law - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com

    ..and a quote from the article




    Really? Prairie dogs? Hmm?

    A .223 projectile with a velocity of approx 3,200 fps capable of killing a human at 300+ yards.

    This just boggles the imagination.
    The .223 isn't classified as a "high powered" cartridge. Think something more along the lines of rifles used for hunting Elk. Then you'll be in the "high powered" class.

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