This is a discussion on The 4th Estate Gets it Wrong..Again within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The original article Oregon mall shooter used stolen rifle; Wash. bill would change self-defense law - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com ..and a quote from ...
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The original article
Oregon mall shooter used stolen rifle; Wash. bill would change self-defense law - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com
..and a quote from the article
the AR-15 does not use “high powered” ammunition, but a cartridge commonly used to shoot prairie dogs.
Really? Prairie dogs? Hmm?
A .223 projectile with a velocity of approx 3,200 fps capable of killing a human at 300+ yards.
This just boggles the imagination.
"When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan
Do what you can; then do what you must
I think I'd rather have them err in that direction (prairie dogs) than saying it's an elephant gun.
Actually, considering the usual diatribe about "assault weapons" with implied inferences about machine guns, this article was very favorable as the LEO was quoted as describing the gun simply as an AR-15:
To his credit during a press conference Wednesday morning, Clackamas County Sheriff’s Sgt. Adam Phillips told a reporter that his agency had not referred to the gun as an “assault” rifle. He properly identified the rifle as an AR-15 semiautomatic, a fact he repeated so reporters would hopefully get it right. As this column noted earlier, the AR-15 does not use “high powered” ammunition, but a cartridge commonly used to shoot prairie dogs.
And before you go too far down the pike with what's capable of killing a human at 300 yards, a lowly .22 Long Rifle round is capable of that.
Smitty
NRA Endowment Member
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Yes, prairie dogs. It's a varmint cartridge. If you want to kill a man, there are much better calibers available.
I'm not saying I'd volunteer to get shot with a .223 - I have an AR-15 and would use it for home defense if the need arose - but it is not impressive that it is lethal at 300 yards either. "Lethal" is a relative term - it's subjective in this context. I think that if a person was shot at 300 yards with a .223 Remington, they would have well over a 50% change of surviving. I'm just making this up - but it's to illustrate my point.
Also - if I wanted to kill prairie dogs, an accurate semi-automatic rifle with a relatively high magazine capacity makes sense.
To me, the article sounds like the Sheriff was trying to keep to the facts and not blow things out of proportion.
Austin
High powered compared to a cap gun? Yes. High powered compared to most other rifle cartridges? No, not by a long shot. I think the Sheriff Sgt. has a better perspective on what was used as opposed to how it's usually reported.
Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME
Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.
Here's another vote for considering the .223 as a nice middling varmint round. It's about midway to the top of the .22 center fire cartridge line-up.
“No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”
Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893
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Really? Where do I purchase .22 cal with 3200 fps muzzle velocity?Originally Posted by bmcgilvray
"When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan
Do what you can; then do what you must
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It was not the Sheriff that reported "the AR-15 does not use “high powered” ammunition, but a cartridge commonly used to shoot prairie dogs." but the writer of the article
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From the Rifle Recoil Table @ ChuckHawks.com, listing FPS (grains @ fps) ...
.22 LR (40 at 1165)
.22 WMR (40 at 1910)
.22 Hornet (45 at 2800)
.22 PPC (52 at 3300)
.221 Fireball (50 at 3000)
.222 Rem. (50 at 3200)
.223 Rem. (45 at 3500)
.223 Rem. (55 at 3200)
.223 Rem. (62 at 3025)
.225 Win. (55 at 3700)
.224 Wby. Mag. (55 at 3700)
.22-250 Rem. (55 at 3600)
.22-250 Rem. (60 at 3500)
.220 Swift (50 at 3900)
.220 Swift (55 at 3800)
.223 WSSM (55 at 3850)
... assuming the .22 reference meant any of the .22x centerfire rifle rounds.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense.
Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
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Walmart. It's called .223 Remington.... I feel like we're talking in circles here. .223 Remington is .22 caliber - that little 3/1000ths on the end isn't enough to bump it up to 6mm - which is still a small caliber.
Austin
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We are talking the media and newspapers who, many years ago, particularly after Watergate, traded any responsibility for being a true and independent watchdog on the government to doing what it takes to suck on the right teat regardless of right or wrong.
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I would think you could ask some North Vietnamese, Afgans, or Iraqies what the 223/5.56 ammo is capable of..
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From a hunting perspective the .223 is a true varmint/small predator cartridge.
It's the low end of whitetail hunting rounds. Lethal, yes. Ideal, not really.
Let's face it, it's not just speed that matters. Weight and diameter, and powder load also matter. Let's face it, when you compare the 7mm08 and the 7mm Rem Mag rounds, both the same diameter the 7mm RM has far more power. Both are still effective killing rounds for North American game. Let's face it though, the .22 LR historically been the favored round for deer poachers in the US for generations because it CAN kill. Not because it is an ideal round.
The comment about the .223 being a varmint round, to me, was spot on. I've always been a hunter first, and then SD shooter. It's a good reference.
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According to my 1968 Guidebook for Marines, the muzzle vel of a 5.56 in the M16 was 3250fps. In the m-4 it has to be less - shorter barrel.
Fun to shoot, but I preferred my M-14. (grin)
When seconds count, help is minutes away!
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Maybe if you were shooting prairie dogs wearing 1/4" thick plate armor. I was taught in the military that it was the best round for "hardened" combat (shooting through barriers).
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