What would you do in this scenario?

What would you do in this scenario?

This is a discussion on What would you do in this scenario? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hello all. I am a bit new to this forum, but have been reading a TON of informative information. I have thought about this scenario, ...

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Thread: What would you do in this scenario?

  1. #1
    Member Array zneith's Avatar
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    What would you do in this scenario?

    Hello all. I am a bit new to this forum, but have been reading a TON of informative information. I have thought about this scenario, and how it could pertain to my life; also, what I would do.

    Tuesday through Saturday I run/manage a computer shop. I am the only employee at the shop on most days. Lets assume that I've spoken to my boss, and he allowed carrying

    in the shop for my own protection.


    We generally do not deal with cash. It is mostly debit/credit cards or a check. We do have an inventory hanging on the wall of misc computer parts for building computers etc.

    We have a few computers out on display. That's about the only inventory in the shop.


    Onto the scenario:

    What if one day I'm working, and I have a person that comes in, asks me a few computer questions, than demands that I hand over money. Well first off like I said, we do not carry

    cash. Second, lets say he pulled a handgun out and pointed it my direction demanding cash. What would I do? Telling him we do not carry cash may irritate him. Should I wait for him to

    leave? Should I let him know I am armed and prepare to display/fire my firearm? If I have the opportunity, should I display my weapon? Should I display my weapon and fire if his weapon

    is still in my general direction? I tried playing the scenario out in my head

    many different ways. From the way I see it, if my life was in imminent danger (which it would be), then displaying the firearm and being prepared to fire is the best solution. And I say

    prepared because the 'robber' could potential flee after the firearm is displayed. I also understand that scenarios like this can change within a matter of seconds, but with what is being

    played out here what would you guys do? For me, being prepared for anything is ideal. It's my life, there is no restart button.


    Second scenario would be a knife being displayed instead of a firearm. Lets say he is on one side of the counter and I'm on the other (arms distance away). My life is still in danger, but

    not as significant as the 'robber' having a firearm. In my eyes, it is NOT justified to display my firearm until he tried lunging at me with the knife/blade, or if he tried to come around the

    other side of the counter to pursue me.


    Any thoughts or input are greatly appreciated and as stated above, I know scenarios can change in the matter of seconds. Just looking for some input to be as prepared as possible.



    Thanks everyone!


    Zneith


  2. #2
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    Someone "presents" a deadly weapon of any sort, you are justified in using equal force--whether he "lunges" at you or not. Period, no hesitation. You are justified!

    In all honesty, BGs are looking for a quick hit on cash or saleable items (Jewelery and the like). I would not place a computer shop very high on a "hit list," although nothing is beyond crime.

    Any scenerio present will have too many "Ifs" to have one single answer. Hopefully the store has surveilance cameras that would support any claim of SD and weapons shown.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  3. #3
    Member Array zneith's Avatar
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    The store does have cameras, but as far as I know, they record at certain time periods not 24/7. The merchandise within the shop could be worth a couple thousand dollars. Not

    that I live in a bad area, but being prepared for anything to me is the first step in self defense. I appreciate your input.

  4. #4
    Ex Member Array Stan6406's Avatar
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    If someone is pointing a gun at you better think if you can draw and fire faster then he can pull the trigger. There is no way I would try and pull my gun if someone had a gun pointed at me. That may turn the robbery into a homicide.
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  5. #5
    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
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    I suggest you get some self defense training, and review your state's use of force laws.

    If it were me, I wouldn't ask my boss about anything - unless he has specifically stated in the past that carrying a weapon in his business is not ok with him. I would assume that since I am alone and have to fend for myself, I will take responsibility for my own safety.

    Also - if it were me - there is no "displaying" or "talk" about having a firearm. If it needs to come out, that's it. I don't envision a situation where you discuss (at gunpoint) that you also have a gun, and then produce it, and the two of you discuss how you should proceed from there. That said - depending on the distance, hand to hand techniques may be more appropriate when being held at gunpoint.

    As for the knife - he's on the other side of the counter - so you may have time to draw and fire.

    Lastly - situational awareness, and learning behavioral cues and tell tale signs of a person's intentions might be something to focus on. You probably get a lot of regulars, and some "new" customers who are obviously computer people, and know what they are looking for. If you have someone that looks out of place - that may be an indication to be a little extra alert. You don't have to freak out on them - just watch.

    Austin
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  6. #6
    Member Array Harvester's Avatar
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    IMHO in both cases he/she has displayed intent to cause you physical harm and/or take your life, no questions asked if you had the opportunity to you could shoot them in self defence.
    Molon Labe

  7. #7
    Member Array zneith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aus71383 View Post
    I suggest you get some self defense training, and review your state's use of force laws.

    If it were me, I wouldn't ask my boss about anything - unless he has specifically stated in the past that carrying a weapon in his business is not ok with him. I would assume that since I am alone and have to fend for myself, I will take responsibility for my own safety.

    Also - if it were me - there is no "displaying" or "talk" about having a firearm. If it needs to come out, that's it. I don't envision a situation where you discuss (at gunpoint) that you also have a gun, and then produce it, and the two of you discuss how you should proceed from there. That said - depending on the distance, hand to hand techniques may be more appropriate when being held at gunpoint.

    As for the knife - he's on the other side of the counter - so you may have time to draw and fire.

    Lastly - situational awareness, and learning behavioral cues and tell tale signs of a person's intentions might be something to focus on. You probably get a lot of regulars, and some "new" customers who are obviously computer people, and know what they are looking for. If you have someone that looks out of place - that may be an indication to be a little extra alert. You don't have to freak out on them - just watch.

    Austin
    Fortunately, my boss is my father. He is handling IT Consulting for local businesses throughout our area. I do not believe there are any stipulations put into place against carrying, but it is

    something that I would talk to him about before I decided to do it.


    When I stated about displaying the firearm, I meant draw and be prepared to shoot. Not have a discussion with the 'robber' about what to do next. I also would not be drawing if

    he has the gun pointed at my head. If the opportunity arose where I had confident time to draw, that is what I meant. Sorry for the misconception. Also,

    thanks for your input. A training course is definitely something to look into for the near future.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array KBSR's Avatar
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    "What if scenarios" are helpful in formulating plans of action, in advance. Action is always faster than reaction. I'm glad you are asking the questions, and beginning to develop some situational awareness. It is critically important to practice "When/Then" thinking. When he does this, I'll do that. You've had some good advice on here already, and i'll add my .02.

    First of all, trying to outdraw a trigger squeeze is a fools errand. If he's got a gun pointed at your head, you missed something he did earlier, that would lead you to believe that he was going to present a threat. There are ways to disarm someone with a gun pointed at your head, but I won't attempt to teach those techniques here. Get a good self defense instructor, and train, train, train, if you're serious about surviving this kind of encounter.

    If he's across the counter from you, his gun isn't pointed directly at you, and you can get to cover quickly, while drawing your own weapon, that's what I'd try to do. Most BG's don't train, and certainly don't train on moving targets. Make yourself hard to hit, while getting your own gun into the fight. And NO, you don't tell him squat about what you got, or what you're going to do. Use that time to join the fight.

    Same thing with a knife. The rule of thumb for knives is 21 feet. If a skilled knife fighter is within 21 feet of you, he can cut/stab/slash you before you can draw and fire a single shot. Increase the distance between you and he, and draw your weapon. Order him to the ground, to drop the knife, and dial 911. Tell the 911 operator what's going on, to include identifying/describing yourself and what you are wearing, and that you are the GOOD guy. I'm not going to tell you to shoot or not shoot him if he resists/ignores your orders. If he chooses to leave the store, you win. If he follows your orders, you win. If he ignores your orders, and charges you, remember front sights. He loses.

    Remember, being mentally prepared for a violent confrontation is as important as having the tools to join that fight. Have a plan already formulated, and put it into action. Tactics are nice, but extreme violence carries the day. Remember also that there is no such thing as a fair fight. Do whatever it takes to win. Be safe.
    " But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... Baa." Col. Dave Grossman on Sheep and Sheepdogs.

  9. #9
    Senior Moderator
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    basically what has been stated already: If a BG has a Gun pointed at you, it is to late to draw and fire....If it is pointed at the ceiling back door still stuck in their pants and you ave practiced drawing and firing you might try it, but you have to be sure.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Me? I'm just waiting for someone who isn't a squeaky newborn on this forum to post a "what-would-you do?, what-if?, how-would-you-react?" scenario. Because, IMHO, there seems to be some sort of irresistible compulsion to do so. I've been noticing that the longer an OP has been a member, the less likely they are to give us one of these unsolvable puzzles. And most of the time, when we oldsters do make an effort to contribute, we then suddenly get authoritatively corrected. Are you all aspiring novelists doing research? Is there a screenplay yet unfinished?

    You joined this month. You've made four posts. With all due respect, truly, why don't you spend just a little time researching & reading around here about tactics & real-world gunfights before you begin so earnestly exercising your imagination. The world isn't a Steven Seagal (Jack Reacher?) movie. It's hard & it's fast with no (NO!) hard fast answers to dire circumstances that haven't...happened yet.

    Oh, BTW, welcome to Defensive Carry! We ARE GLAD to have ya'!
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  11. #11
    Member Array zneith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    Me? I'm just waiting for someone who isn't a squeaky newborn on this forum to post a "what-would-you do?, what-if?, how-would-you-react?" scenario. Because, IMHO, there seems to be some sort of irresistible compulsion to do so. I've been noticing that the longer an OP has been a member, the less likely they are to give us one of these unsolvable puzzles. And most of the time, when we oldsters do make an effort to contribute, we then suddenly get authoritatively corrected. Are you all aspiring novelists doing research? Is there a screenplay yet unfinished?

    You joined this month. You've made four posts. With all due respect, truly, why don't you spend just a little time researching & reading around here about tactics & real-world gunfights before you begin so earnestly exercising your imagination. The world isn't a Steven Seagal (Jack Reacher?) movie. It's hard & it's fast with no (NO!) hard fast answers to dire circumstances that haven't...happened yet.

    Oh, BTW, welcome to Defensive Carry! We ARE GLAD to have ya'!

    I appreciate your concern. I am new to this forum undoubtedly, and this 'what-if' scenario was something that could potentially happen in MY life. I was curious to see how others might

    handle it considering you guys are very well endowed with information and techniques. Seeing what others might do in comparison to what I was thinking might help if this situation

    ever does occur.


    I have spent the last few weeks reading through the scenario page, open carry, and concealed carry. With all do respect, I've read through most of the forum before even

    registering on this site. In my eyes, the more knowledge you have for a scenario that is more relevant to your every-day-living, the better prepared one will be. This was not

    supposed to be a "noobie" post or "unsolvable post" more or less something that might be directly related to my personal life and advice on how the community would react. It is

    obviously an imaginative scenario because it blatantly has not happened yet. I am merely trying to plan for such a scenario just in case...

    I posted this response because it could directly relate to me personally, like I said. The other scenarios were definitely a good read and very informative. I felt like I would benefit

    from having a response from several knowledgeable members of the community on this situation; and I have. Thanks for the response.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array KBSR's Avatar
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    I guess because I'm not an "oldster" on this forum, I'm not yet so cynical or set in my ways that I'm not willing to try to offer some counsel when I think I can contribute. If you've spent the time reading the other posts, and doing your research, and find that you still want to ask a question, then I say fire away. That's what we're here for. I won't try to discourage your question, or belittle you for trying to gain knowledge.

    For about five years I worked as an Instructor/Course Developer at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, teaching baby agents how to become investigators and/or federal law enforcement officers. After a while, you'd heard every question, and answered every question that the students could think of. What I found helpful to keep in mind was that just because you've answered the same question a thousand times, it doesn't mean you've answered that question for the student who is asking it now. There are no stupid questions and every question, if asked respectfully, deserves an answer.

    There, I feel better now. LOL Ya'll be safe.
    " But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... Baa." Col. Dave Grossman on Sheep and Sheepdogs.

  13. #13
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    Ghost tracker, what would I do if a Gun man had a pistol pointed at my head and said "Give me your cash" I'd give him my cash......I might toss my wallet and try shoot him if it distracts him, I might just give him my wallet it depends.

    Is he panicky, cool, drugged out, etc..... there are so many things that are situation dependent that I cannot give an answer. One thing that I do not want someone who is new to do is to try to out draw someone who has the drop on them.

    For me I might try to take the gun away from him, or talk him out of it and into a drug rehab program or church sponsored shelter.

    Once I responded to an attempt robbery at a video store, the robber had a knife and the clerk picked up a hammer. The robber fled after he realized that the clerk wasn't going to give over the cash and was prepared to fight. Talking to the clerk he said "hammer versus a knife seemed to be a pretty fair fight". Regardless he didn't have to fight.

    Way to many variables to give anything but a general one size fits all answer for these type of scenarios.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

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    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Ahhhh, so you ARE an aspiring writer. So...ARE you currently allowed to "carry in the shop for my own protection"? Do you have a firearm? Has your shop, or any shop on your block, been robbed at gun/knife point? Why would the armed robber pick a store that has no cash? We all "want to be prepared for anything". My point wasn't to tweek or insult you. It was simply an observation that these "what if" exercises seem to always originate from a similar member profile.

    Here's an idea. Mount a 900 watt, studio photo strobe just above & behind your right shoulder where you stand at the counter to face a customer. Aim it at 5'11" tall target, immediately in front of you. Disguise it as an unlit work light. Mount a foot activated trip switch. At the recognition of an armed robber intensely-watching your next move in the flash zone, trip the switch. Unfiltered, at that distance, he's completely blind for 2-3 minutes. You have time to do what ever you think best.

    Or you could use a teargas canister, as long as your gasmask is close, few robbers think that far ahead. Maybe a metal grate on the floor in front of the counter that you could instantly electrify?

    After all, we wanna' be "as prepared as possible".
    KBSR and aus71383 like this.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  15. #15
    Member Array zneith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    Ahhhh, so you ARE an aspiring writer. So...ARE you currently allowed to "carry in the shop for my own protection"? Do you have a firearm? Has your shop, or any shop on your block, been robbed at gun/knife point? Why would the armed robber pick a store that has no cash? We all "want to be prepared for anything" & "as prepared as possible". My point wasn't to tweek or insult you. It was simply an observation that these "what if" exercises seem to always originate from a similar member profile.

    Here's an idea. Mount a 900 watt, studio photo strobe just above & behind your right shoulder where you stand at the counter to face a customer. Aim it at 5'11" tall target, immediately in front of you. Disguise it as an unlit work light. Mount a foot activated trip switch. At the recognition of an armed robber intensely-watching your next move in the flash zone, trip the switch.

    Yes I own a firearm, i would not be on this site if I did not. My LTCF is in process and I have been doing a lot of reading for full comprehension.

    The Wells Fargo bank down the street from me was held up a few weeks ago actually.

    I stated that I do not carry cash at the shop because that was an important variable to the situation. The 'robber' would not know whether i have 1,000 dollars in the shop or 0. The noobie stereotype you refer to is understandable, but as I stated, this was not supposed to be a generic what if scenario... this pertained to me.

    The sarcastic response to me was not necessary... this was a serious question/topic that I was concerned about. Once again, thanks for your response.

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