Is there a way to defend against this type of mugging? (Video, Not graphic)

Is there a way to defend against this type of mugging? (Video, Not graphic)

This is a discussion on Is there a way to defend against this type of mugging? (Video, Not graphic) within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; First and foremost, first time posting long time lurker I want to post this video and get some of your thoughts. I believe this video ...

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Thread: Is there a way to defend against this type of mugging? (Video, Not graphic)

  1. #1
    Member Array Phisher34's Avatar
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    Is there a way to defend against this type of mugging? (Video, Not graphic)



    First and foremost, first time posting long time lurker
    I want to post this video and get some of your thoughts. I believe this video provides a great opportunity to discuss what could have been done, if anything. Seeing how fast a situation can go from "gut feeling" to "I am being mugged" is quite alarming. While this video takes place in Iran, imagine this same scenario (or similar) takes place in the USA.

    A few of my points:
    The victim knew something wasn't right by the way he turns his head toward the approaching lead bike - indicating his situational awareness was at least registering something. Leaving his back exposed to this "gut feeling" is probably his first mistake. This allowed the muggers to approach from the front and flank. If he turned toward the street he would at least be able to view the actions of both bikes and had a better chance at fight or flight.

    When the first mugger jumps off the bike you can see the victim take a half step back, his "oh ****" moment has now registered. However, let's say right at this moment (when he is off the bike) our victim pulls his carry weapon - the mugger is only feet away and he doesn't appear to have any visible weapons. Squeezing the trigger at this point is a complete gamble. In the USA, I imagine a prosecutor would get a successful conviction against the victim. (With the other muggers driving off - their intentions never known)

    About 1.5 seconds later, the first mugger has a hand on our victim and the second mugger is now approaching from behind. I think it's worth noting that our second mugger is the one carrying a knife. Not the first one you see. Might be intentional, but also shows how a perceived threat can develop after it's too late.

    At this point I think we can all agree that there is no doubting he is within all legal right to pull and fire on his attackers. That being said, he is being manhandled and the ability to draw and fire is almost completely lost.

    --

    This video in my opinion is a great example of how there is almost no time to determine when a "gut feeling" turns into a "do I draw?" moment. In my opinion, his best option was to turn toward the street right away. When the lead bike stops, run. This at least buys his time and channels his attackers into one direction. If they come after him, draw your CCW and if they take one step closer - put them down.

    But really, this situation is kind of a nightmare scenario for the victim. Which is exactly why muggers do it like this. Heaven forbid you are with your family or loved ones - at that point, running isn't really an option.
    I will also note, that while there are four criminals, essentially two of them are his only threats. Being able to asses this quickly might help make a split-second decision.

    Thoughts?


  2. #2
    Member Array CJohn364's Avatar
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    My first thought is that the victim needs to be more aware of his surrounding. I would never let a motorcycle get that close to me, if I could help it.
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    Member Array niks's Avatar
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    Don't use ATM's

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    VIP Member Array Jetfuelrm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJohn364 View Post
    My first thought is that the victim needs to be more aware of his surrounding. I would never let a motorcycle get that close to me, if I could help it.
    I have to agree doesn't look like he had any SA to me at all and that is a mistake and can be deadly
    "As a strong supporter of our 2nd Amendment rights, I believe tougher enforcement of our nation's existing gun laws must be done before any more laws are enacted and put on the books."
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    As soon as mugger one got off the bike I'd be reaching for my gun and telling him, in no uncertain terms to keep back, not saying I would draw, but my hand would be on it. As soon as the second mugger arrived my gun would be out, and when I saw the knife, well lets just say the man with the knife wouldn't like the loud noise coming from my hand.
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    SA was fine, but he froze on the X.
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    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    My thoughts, he should not have stayed against the wall when the first BG started to move in. Get off the wall move into the middle of the street and take care of business. Yes he was not armed and I would hope and mostly would have been, but his H2H skills sucked big time too. He was man handled, BGs had no need for the knife he wasn't going to do anything but get robbed.

    To answer your question "Is there a way to defend against this type of mugging?" Yes be more violent than the BGs
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    Senior Member Array GentlemanJim's Avatar
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    Rule #1 of using ATM's: Don't use ATM's

    Do not let the first guy get a hand on you or get close enough to touch you.

    When second guy shows up there is a clear disparity of force (especially if you are as old as I am).

    If you have to use an ATM remember the first rule of using ATM's.

    Jim
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    Senior Member Array KBSR's Avatar
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    I know for certain that they better being wearing some earplugs, because there is going to be some really loud noise, right now. Damn taxi driver had the chance to take the one clown out with his bumper, but I guess he didn't want to get involved.

    I use ATMs from time to time, but not the kind that back up to the street. Most of the ones I use are drive through, or at the actual bank, in the foyer. Hyper vigilant times.
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    Member Array Phisher34's Avatar
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    Here is the corresponding news article. Not a lot of information other than what is in the video - but it doesn't appear that he was at an ATM.

    Video shows mugging in broad daylight on Tehran

    The scene, filmed by a surveillance camera, is brief but violent. It takes place in a street in Tehran, as the taxis’ license plates indicate, and shows a man being mugged by four other men.

    The man is standing in the street, apparently waiting for someone or something, when four men arrive on two motorbikes. Two of the men jump off and grab his bag and also try to take his jacket. The man fights back, but stops when he sees one of his attackers brandish a long knife. Meanwhile, cars drive by as if nothing were wrong, except for a taxi that slows down, but quickly drives off when the knife-wielding attacker threatens him. This attacker then swings at his victim with his knife before he and his friends drive off on the motorbikes.
    EDIT: Though it appears the article is just speculating as well. Either way, I think the time between legally drawing a weapon to legally firing is about 1.5 seconds.
    I think this also adds credence to the always keep one in the chamber crowd.

  11. #11
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    Looks like he saw them coming, but the pull to stay and complete his transaction was stronger than the pull to run like Hell. I've seen that lots of times in videos - it's like people are just rooted in position and the need/desire to finish whatever they're doing overcomes all sense. Like the beatdown in McDonald's a few years ago - everybody just stood there in place like robots, neither helping or fleeing. Because they wanted their Big Macs.

    I don't care if I'm halfway through the transaction and my card is in the slot or the cash is coming out, I'm going to boogey out of there. I'll call the bank to cancel my card later. I might not get a do-over on my life.
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    Member Array kmagnuss's Avatar
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    This is where a little h2h training comes in handy to get you some space and a couple seconds to draw. BG1 sees you throw BG2 (with the knife) on the back of his neck, by the time he realized what just happened you have your gun out and have put a couple new vents in him.
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    Member Array ElArdilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmagnuss View Post
    This is where a little h2h training comes in handy to get you some space and a couple seconds to draw. BG1 sees you throw BG2 (with the knife) on the back of his neck, by the time he realized what just happened you have your gun out and have put a couple new vents in him.
    Totally agree, this is where many gun people get hung up. The question is "how do I neutralize my attackers?" not "how can I get my gun into this fight?". The instant the first laid hands on his shoulder/backpack the victim should have exploded violently and aggressively. It looked like a solid hit to the throat was available as was the potential to escape across the street.

    Even a forceful shove could have been enough to gain distance and draw and/or escape. When the encounter is already hands on the best respond is probably a counter hands on approach. The gun is a strong tool, but it's not always the quickest.

  14. #14
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    The mistake I see was useing an ATM that is a foot off the street; look at how close the cars are. When he looks at the oncoming bike/scooter he needs to move; get the heck out of the path of the threat. I like our ATMs we have our card back; hit cancel and run. After the guys off the bike/scooter he has lost the fight.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    That's a tough call. That happened really fast. He had four dudes roll up to him in about two seconds and one of them put a butcher's knife in his face.

    My guess is that a robbery like that work on the vast majority of people (except on the internet). He needed to act the instant the guy got off the first bike, but if he shot him, he would probably go down for murder in the States.
    foxytwo likes this.

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