what should i have done

This is a discussion on what should i have done within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; well a few hours ago, my wife and myself were walking into a store. as we were walking, a car drove by and the passenger ...

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Thread: what should i have done

  1. #1
    Member Array hurst1911a1's Avatar
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    what should i have done

    well a few hours ago, my wife and myself were walking into a store. as we were walking, a car drove by and the passenger turned in his seat(all the way around) and gave me the finger, and lipped" ****you, mutha". (these guys were early to mid 20's and decent sized).

    i guess my first reaction was to get mad, but i just got this confused look on my face and waved( kind of a smart*ss move on my part). car stopped and the driver yelled" i got something for you". at this point i was just fed up, so i just gestured for them to come back, they just drove off.

    i am so tired of having to either put up with this stuff or hear about other having to deal with it. so i just called their bluff, and they did exactly what i thought they would. but they could have got out wanting to fight(im not going to lie, at that point that did not seam like a bad idea) or worse, the could have had a weapon of some sort! i my mind these were just a couple of guys that get there jollies intimidating people, so in my eyes, i was not provoking a fight... just calling their bluff.

    if things went sour, i had my Kimber 1911, but using it in this situation never crossed my mind. but my question is, by doing what i did, could that have been seen as provocation? how would you suggest that situation be handled?thanks
    Last edited by P95Carry; October 20th, 2006 at 07:17 PM. Reason: split into to para's and changes to inadequately concealed profanity.

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    Ignore them. If the want to act as primates, let them. In a sense, you did the same as they did, by calling their bluff like you did. I have and will continue to give a friendly wave at such meat heads, but its silly to invite them to you. You have just invited them to a physical confrontation, when it was just a verbal one at that point.
    I know its hard to be the "bigger man" is these situations, but it would also be tough to prove that you are the victim when you invited the physical confrontation.

    In your mind you may have been just calling the bluff, but do you know whats going on in their pea brains? Maybe they mistook you for someone else, that would be tough to find out after the dust settled and smoke cleared.

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    Member Array denverd0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurst1911a1 View Post
    ...i just gestured for them to come back... in my eyes, i was not provoking a fight... could that have been seen as provocation? how would you suggest that situation be handled?
    Come on. Do you really have to ask? Just from the way you worded this, I think you already know the answer.

    Yes, what you did was provocation. What it was in your eyes doesn't really matter. A prosecutor would see it as provocation. A judge would see it as provocation. You never know what a jury will do, but my guess is that they, too, would see it as provocation.

    There is only one way to handle a situation like this: ignore them and walk away. No offense, but frankly, if you can't do that, you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun. When you are carrying a gun you have an obligation to ignore the provocations of others, and not to offer your own provocations.

  5. #4
    Member Array myusername's Avatar
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    I would just keep walking away. Keep an eye out for what they are doing but don't say anything or gesture to them. If something would happen you don't need someone coming forward saying you were yelling back at them and making hand signs or rude gestures.

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    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    I wave and smile--IF They force me to take action, and I cannot avoid the situation, I will.
    Keep the shotgun handy!!

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Do not respond;
    Immediately scan for hard cover if not concealment;
    Direct your wife to it first followed by you;
    Leave the immediate area immediately;
    Live to post about your win.

    No fuss, no muss.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Yeah, when we carry we really have to hold ourselves to very high standards of behaviour. If, God forbid, a situation evolves into ultimate self defense we have to show we did everything we could to defuse the situation or we may find ourselves in some serious legal troubles!
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

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    Member Array hurst1911a1's Avatar
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    it is sad that we are at the point were we just have to fold every time these people want to act like jerks, as for denverd0n, the use of my firearm was not even a thought, i didnt just start "flashing my piece" im just tired of these people just running all over everyone else

  10. #9
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    they got a rise outta you, didn't they?

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    Member Array myusername's Avatar
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    I wouldnt feel like I am "folding". At that point they have done nothing to me. They have not harmed me. They are just acting like idiots. I am not the type of person that needs to react to some words from idiots in a car. I really don't care what they are yelling out their windows. If they choose to get out and actually do something then I would react accordingly.

  12. #11
    Member Array hurst1911a1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    they got a rise outta you, didn't they?
    guess you got a point

  13. #12
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    kinda like the whole terrorist thing, on a smaller scale... they don't have to bomb us to win, just make us live in fear or change our lifestyle and they won.

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myusername View Post
    I wouldnt feel like I am "folding". At that point they have done nothing to me. They have not harmed me. They are just acting like idiots. I am not the type of person that needs to react to some words from idiots in a car. I really don't care what they are yelling out their windows. If they choose to get out and actually do something then I would react accordingly.

    In a sense, they are "harming."

    They are causing people to have to live under intimidation and fear. How can you separate their actions from the known fact that people who do what they did also often ACT in violent ways, instead of just using words? Words exactly like what they did are known to precede acts of violence.

    They didn't cause physical harm, but their act was harmful. It disturbs the peace of the victims of it, if nothing else.

    Sure, it's not advisable to egg them on, particularly if you have a gun and the egging-on might force you to end up having to use it.

    I suppose that anyone who would drive around and just randomly do that kind of thing must be carrying a lot of anger at the world; probably had a rough, underprivileged life. I really think that you ought to have offered to buy them a sundae, hurst. Or maybe a free college education, or a house on the water... you know, something to make them feel less downtrodden by the man.



    P.S.
    Was this a racial thing? Sounds a bit like it. Were the antagonists of a different race from you? How did that break down?

  15. #14
    Member Array hurst1911a1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    In a sense, they are "harming."

    :

    P.S.
    Was this a racial thing? Sounds a bit like it. Were the antagonists of a different race from you? How did that break down?
    i am white, they were black, but if it was anything racial, it was on their part

  16. #15
    Member Array steve_db's Avatar
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    hurst, I'm sorry you had to experience that. It's ugly.
    I think calmer heads prevail in situations like that.
    I agree with other posts - i.e., no provocation on my part.
    I can ignore them without "backing down", by increase my vigilance and readiness.

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